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Sure Justin-I know how much jOe cherishes these discussions
Damascus quality, and the Birmingham trial, is discussed here
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_22ddqshmdq
Probably little practical difference in strength between the first 20 barrels however.

Last edited by revdocdrew; 01/24/09 10:47 AM.
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Eventhough I love damascus barrels; it doesn't really tell you much about the ones we own as no two were made exactly alike.

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revdocdrew:

Do you have a pic where the number of iron/steel bars equates the number on the tubes? On the 1st pic of the rib-band you have 4 steel and 5 iron. How can you get a pattern of 4 steel/4 iron or 5 steel/ 5 iron, etc.? Or for this example of the billet will the next billet be 5 steel and 4 iron to mate with the 1 iron left over from the previous?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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ellenbr

I suspect that the outside bands of metal were often iron to make the welds easier. Or once again I am wrong. It would seem that iron would be easier to use where the welds are and the steel is present to make the combo much stronger. Otherwise why not just make all steel damascus barrels?

revdocdrew

Your work is on of the best exchanges of information on the subject of damascus that I have seen since Dr. Gaddy left us. That is meant as a strong compliment.

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Thank you, but it's all built on Dr Gaddy's foundation. We also need to thank Dave Miles for saving the pictures of Dr Gaddy's Damascus Sample Board from his posts on this Forum and shown here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/16082038 ; pics which had been lost in internet space.
Raimey: I'm not sure I understand your question. PeteM understands the lopin/billet better than I, but there are pics of several on the above album.

Last edited by revdocdrew; 01/24/09 11:44 AM.
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BTW: If one of our British brethern would only find the 'English Damascus Rosetta Stone' I could die a happy man on the next Guatemala trip

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What a nice thing to say about a Damascus barrel, jOe! Your "optorectitus" seems to be improving, but we'll have to give it a little longer before we can call it cured...keep up the good work?

binko


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Originally Posted By: KY Jon
I suspect that the outside bands of metal were often iron to make the welds easier. Or once again I am wrong. It would seem that iron would be easier to use where the welds are and the steel is present to make the combo much stronger. Otherwise why not just make all steel damascus barrels?


Today there are makers using steel and steel to create damascus barrels.

There was no coding used on the barrels that referenced the number of rods, ropes, billets, riband, etc. At least none that I have found evidence of in primary sources.

Many already know this, from all the previous discussion.

During the golden age of damascus one of the goals was to achieve a lighter barrel and maintain strength. The early steels required very thick barrel walls to handle the hoop stress. The combination of iron and steel along with the geometry of the twisting made for a lighter shotgun barrel. Even the 1890 English test shows the damascus to be stronger than the fluid steel of the day.

Here are three rods. The composition will yield a Bernard pattern as we can see in the next photo which shows the pattern in the process of forming. It still requires more forging (hammering) and grinding.





Having steel or iron as the outer layer was not as important as was the pattern. The thicknesses of the layers were so thin in the billets as to make no difference.



The rods as they came from the rolling mills were only 4mm x 4mm square and about 3 feet long. They were heated red hot at the mill. A cold rolling would have caused the rods to crack later. At the forge, they were again heated red hot.

I had a long conversation with a blacksmith last week who watched the dvd. He described for me some steps that a non-blacksmith would miss ( I know I missed them ) . One of them was the barrel makers adding more billet to a barrel in progress.

Finally from Oscar:
Originally Posted By: Oscar
Both of those samples came from the same barrel so they both have exactly the same pattern. Your observation just goes to show the difficulty of counting the "irons" in the pattern. Each rope or iron produces the left side of one whorl and the right side of another. You can easily see the boundary of a rope on these samples, but you cannot see and identify with certainty the boundary of the riband and count the number of ropes (irons) in the riband which is by definition the number of "irons" in the pattern.

Oscar

I do hope every knows that Dave saved 2 great discussions with Oscar about damascus:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...;gonew=1#UNREAD

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6343&page=1#Post6343

Pete

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Does anyone have pictures for the Three and Four blade Damascus barrels that were used on the Winchester Models 1893 and 1897 pump shotguns? Also, were they originally finished in the "Black and White" look or were they finished some other way?


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BinkO that was an inside joke....sorry it went over your head.

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