doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Braised ribs vs soft soldered ribs

Yea, I knew that Braze was to hard solder with brass & Braise was a method of cooking, but just followed along anyway.
Personally I would want my doubles Rust Blued regardless of joining method. I also recall Brownell's claiming the lead free Force 44 soft solder they sell/sold, not sure of current status, would withstand hot salt bluing, though I have not personally tried it. It was predominately Tin with a touch of Silver as I recall.
I do recall Oscar saying the alkaline salts attacked the tin, but I had always heard it attacked the lead, so not positive, but I prefer rust bluing anyway, so matters not much to me. I do know they will eat up aluminum in short order.

A closely fitted silver brazed joint( .002-005" gap) will have strength approaching that of a weld in mild steel.

OB

binko I agree that's what you said but you're going to have write your own little tirade about their use of "there" and their". I only allow myself one little tirade per year.

Rocket I gave you five gold stars but apparently it didn't raise your average enough to get you above 3.4999999999999999999999999

Miller I always read your posts and put great stock in what you write - again please forgive me for nit-picking.

Best,

Mike

Silver soldering and brazing are two different processes.

Best,

Mike

They're ??

Daryl I don't have the temperatures memorized but brazing is done at several hundred degrees F higher than soldering. Soldering can be done with lead/tin or silver/lead/tin mixtures.

The high grade English guns were silver soldered. To regulate them they would shoot them, stick hot irons in the barrel muzzle to soften the solder, adjust (move) the barrels, let them cool, and shoot them again. They would repeat this until both barrels had the same point of impact. Because of the solder the barrels must be rust blued, not hot blued. Because they used a solder with silver content they had to solder at a higher temperature but not anywhere near as hot as required to braze.

AYA, even on a Number 1 grade, brazes their barrels. Any regulating that is done is done by shaping the internals of the barrel, not by heating and moving the ends of the barrels. They can be and are hot blued. Now to make the brazing easier they may use a rod with up to 15% silver in it but it is still brazing.

Best,

Mike

Edit - Added the information below:

The rod we use to braze copper piping for refrigeration and med gas systems melts at 1310 degreesF and may contain silver. Typically 93% copper and 7% phosphorous

To braze steel to steel the rod would probably melt at 1145 degreesF. Probably a copper and tin mix.

50%/50% lead/tin solder melts at 361 degreesF

94%/6% tin/silver solder melts at 431 degreesF

Best,

Mike

Sorry, Mike, I was just trying to get the their, there, etc. stuff firm in my mind.

Just got the joke Daryl and it is pretty funny.

I think I must be getting my period.

Best,

Mike

Solders are defined as "Soft" or "Hard" Soft solders are those witha low melting point of usually 450°F or less. Lead/Tin solders fall into this category as well as silver bearing tin solders. I believe a few in the past used cadmium as well & some may still yet. The old Eutectic (Brand) 157 was I believe a cadmium bearing tin solder first intrduced for soldering joints in stainless tubing for the Grade A Dairy industry.
Hard Solders have a higher melting temp & of course greater strength. This category includes both Brazing (Spelter) & Silver Solder alloys composed generally of Silver, Copper & Zinc (Brass). A much used one in the shop I worked in was "Easy-Flo 45" with a flow temp of about 1145°F, though I don't have it's exact composition.
The addition of a little Silver to a "Soft Solder" can indeed add some desirable characteristics but it does not put into the classification of a "Silver Solder" which normally contains neither lead or tin.
Source; Machinery's Handbook
The Eutectic mix of tin/lead is 66/34 at which temp it turns from solid to liquid all at once without going through a "Slush" & is also the lowest melt of either metal or any other combination there of. Irregardless of exact actual composition those bls which were regulated by heating & moving about were soldered with a soft solder, not a hard solder.

Well that's another thing... periods where there should be apostrophies. Their (or should I say they're?) ought to be a law. That really braises my butt, which occurs at much less than 1145 degrees F. But you are forgiven because it is inauguration day, and a new age of togetherness and peace and prosperity has dawned. Kumbaya