doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Where does Boss& Co fit in?

Nice looking gun Binko...don't you wish it was stocked to the balls ?
I'd bet the butt stock is not original to the gun nor the open choking...by 1890 choke was all the rage.

If it were stocked to the fences Joe, it would be a different gun.

One often reads that best sidelocks should be 'stocked to the fences'. In my view this is a reaction to the widespreaed use of the Rogers' action in the first quarter of the 20th Century for lower quality sidelocks made for the Trade. This 'Royal' is no such thing.

Most gunmakers started to copy the 'stocked to the fences' Purdey aesthetic after 1880 because it is indeed very handsome.

However, earlier models by Boss and H&H and many others were not styled in this manner. It is irrelevant and certainly no indication of inferior quality or style.

Which action would you say it is ?

It's a bespoke weapon, if you know what that means, so it is quite possible the stock is original, and to my knowledge it is. The cylinder bore is original as per H&H records...I called them, that's how I know the #1 gun went back to them in 1952 for re-barreling. I gave the serial #, so if you want to try to prove me wrong again, you can call for yourself.

thanks for your concern,

binko

Not trying to prove you wrong, just my assessment. I would like to see the proof marks.

Joe,
These early Royals are really quite nice and handle very well. Many were made for the movers and shakers of the day with top notch engraving and beautiful wood. Certainly all these guns were finished and inspected by Holland. I know several collectors that use theirs regularly. I have one, not nearly as nice as Binkos with damascus barrels and black powder proofs that shoots very well, however my guns chokes are rifled.

James Purdey and Thomas Boss had already built a few hundred masterpieces which hunted in every continent of the world and shot every species of dangerous game before Holland figured out which end the cartridge went in!!!
And who exactly built Holland and Holland marked guns prior to say 1890???

Purdy and Boss make fine guns, but how does that diminsh Holland? Holland finished, regulated and marketed their guns into a business empire eventhough they didn't make every action. Quite a feat really, must have been quality control.Ultimately Holland did figure out which end to drop the powder into.

As I understand it, the Mantons were much responsible for raising the bar of gun original quality. The apprentices responded to the challenge and a whole generation of master gunmakers met a new standard of workmanship that resulted in the "best gun." H&H, and many other masters that arrived later, met the challenge and upheld the standard. Much of H&H's production seems to have been Scott built prior to the 1890's. The real issue, as pointed out by PM, is quality control. If the master at the helm of production for any gunmaker, manufacturer or simply vendor, upheld and demanded "best" workmanship from both in-workers and out-workers, the result was "best" guns. Most names sold at least a few "best" guns and a few sold mostly "best" guns. The issue, then, was getting the commissions for "best" guns and the money needed for their production. "Best" guns were, are, and likely will continue to be one of the penultimate luxuary items of the world. They were, are, and will continue to be very costly.

Binko I hope you don't think you have 15k H&H.