doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com American Gun Company Highwalls

I think Michael addressed the real problem when he said "Maybe the market is not there for them". I think that the men (and women?) on this and the other single shot forums represent a measurable fraction of the total universe of potential customers. How many of us know 100 people who would order a custom single shot? What volume of annual sales do the existing manufacturers have? Perhaps Brent can make some projections.

waterman

Me make projections?

Well, at 6 billion people, headed for a plateau (allegedly) of 9 billion in 2050, and with single shot affictionados having a mortality rate that exceeds their birth rate and so and so forth, I project a market of.... not much.

Michael,

It is my understanding that these rifles actions are machined from castings, made by Shiloh Sharps Foundary. The castings have been available for sale from Shiloh for some time. I presume requests for parts not conforming to the casting shape will have to be machined from solid steel or perhaps added to the range later when additional moulds have been made to permit new parts to be added to the castings range.

Harry

If Shiloh didn't pursue development of this action to compete with their archrival down the street, then I'd figure they probably had a good reason. If the parts don't interchange perfectly with the originals then that's about as good a reason as there possibly could be, at least IMO.

In any case I'm not gonna hold my breath 'til I have one in my hands. But I will hope just a little bit...
Regards, Joe

Gentlemens:

I have talked to these folks about the action and they seem sincere in their efforts to produce it. They say that it is an accurate reproduction and the parts will interchange with originals. The exception to that is the Mann-Niedner firing pin they used. (If there ever was a solution out looking for a problem, it is the M-N firing pin... but I digress)

It is their intention, as relayed to me, to provide the action in a number of configurations in the future, including all of the set trigger variations. They now have examples of all three set triggers to reverse engineer.

I have no dog in this fight except for our collective desire to have another source for Winchester actions and parts. I wish them well. They did mention a while back that they will be at the Guild show in Reno at the end of the month. If so perhaps more detailed and current information will be available.

Glenn

And I have nothing against this firm but am generally sceptical of all rifle action makers because so few have ever been successful and so many have screwed clients one way of another.

Here are a few things I do know: Dave Noreen lives in Manhattan, MT about 40 miles west of here. He sold his action business to Waffen-Hein who have been slapped with a law suit (check out GS on Accurate Reloading) by numerous client for non-delivery and other perceived crimes. Noreen's M-70/Mauser action never did work very well and were problematic at best, his delivery problem was because of difficulties in manufacture, not over-popularity. Now the Hein actions are being accused of being defective. Folks were throwing money at Hein with deposits when there was only one finished rifle photo on their web site for all the different actions sizes they (?) offered.

Shilo Sharps is in Big Timber, MT about 40 miles in the other direction and I've never heard of them selling 1885 castings although C. Sharps is across the street from them and now offer machined 1885 actions (flat side, oct. top) that used to have cast frames. I recently hooked Martin Hagn up with Shilo to maybe cast his medium action frames. Martin visited Shilo and my shop last fall with molds.

There is no McGowen Co.(or any other action maker) listed as an invited guest at the Guild Show according to the Gunmaker I received earlier this week, and it is not acceptable to show products freelance at the show without display space so it might be difficult to see an action there.

Seen any Peregrine single shot actions lately? How many different sizes were they going to make? After years of promises the owner sent me a lengthy prospectus trying to sell me the business. One of my clients did manage to take delivery on a Peregrine action, the only one I know of.

Seen any British Shirley actions? (in Winfer's book?) Another client of mine purchases one and a box of parts and drawings at an auction in London, I've never seen the stuff. I think is was the receivership sale?

I built two rifle on Falling Block Works actions while in gunsmithing school, they sold flawed actions to the college bookstore, not really a great action IMO.

I just wish I had bought a couple of Ballard 1885's and a Ballard action (to give to Mike) Steve Garbe offered, but I had originals of both at the time.

I've got a two part story written on all of the available Single Shot actions circa 2005 and I can't sell the story, so many companies have changes hands or gone out of business I'd have to completely rewrite it. But no magazine wants it anyway.

So, I hope we all have quality 1885's available, I really do!

30 year ago, I purchased an old surplus VZ-24 mauser from Sears. I had Harry McGowan rebarrel it to 6mm Remington and do all the metal work. Spoke with Harry in June of 2007 as they were moving all the equipment out of his St Anne, Il shop.

A few weeks later, I spoke to the new owner about a barrel. He promised he would be up and running by Oct of 2007. I really do hope that this new venture is successful for him.

Pete

Hi all….New guy here.
Hope I don’t ruffle too many feathers by adding my 2 cents. …
I looked at the AGC site, at first was pretty excited about a company bringing out a true reproduction of the 1885 action

BUT:
One of my concerns with the AGC actions is that they will be making them out of 4140 steel, with no plans for offering another material.

Now 4140 is a good medium carbon general purpose steel, more than adequate for an 1885 rifle actions. But it is an oil quench, thru hardening steel. 4140 was not designed to be a water quenched case hardening steel.

I discussed this with them a couple of months ago, and suggested that they make the actions out of a case hardening steel such as 8620, or at least offer customers a choice. The feeling that I got over the phone was that I was just throwing numbers at him…with very little understanding on the far end.

I did get a commitment that he would bring it up at the next meeting.

To their credit, I did get an E-Mail about a week later stating that the topic was brought up, although the boss decided against it.

Now I don’t know exactly what exactly will happen when a rifle action made out of 4140 is CCH in the traditional method. Researching the effects ( Machinery’s Handbook, ASM Metals Handbook etc) range from not optimum material for case hardening to plain ole don’t do it, with anticipate outcomes of excessive warpage, cracking , uneven hardening etc.

Now I understand that 4140 can be properly color case hardened by using the Cyanide process; that’s a method I’ve decided against using in my shop… not very forgiving to the guy applying it if done wrong.

Hopefully AGC will mark these actions (stamping inside the tangs etc), alerting those of us that do the traditional Bone CCH that the material is a non case hardening steel.

So anyway rambling thoughts from a new guy…take it for what you think it worth.

Mike Hunter
Hunter Restorations

Mike, it's definitely "worth something" to those of us who devoutly wish these actions would get made--very good stuff to know.

I can live with blued 1885 actions, although I would really prefer the option of case coloring and NOT having to send a white action to Doug Turnbull (or someone else who uses the cyanide process--does he?). I have only one "originally blued" 1885, a parts gun .25-20WCF made on a Winder musket reciever and relined barrel. The US-marked reciever and barrel are still blue, and very attractive and durable blue at that.

Could sure "settle" for a blued modern, affordable equivalent hiwall from these guys....especially if they were to offer a choice of CF or RF blocks.

Steven,

would agree with most of what you wrote and add the Wickliffe action as well. The one bit of exception I would take is with your summary of the Peregrine action. While it never did make "mass production" status, and never was meant to, there were enough of them made and distributed to gain a sort of cult following, with me being one of the cult. I'm guessing there were a couple of hundred completed, but as they were sold as actions only (he never made completed rifles) I don't know what kind of rifles they became, or how many are still in boxes waiting for somebody to barrel and stock them.

Another action I am curious about is a fairly massive hammerless DST action called the "Alleghany" or some such? Charlie Dell ordered one 15-20 years ago and when he saw how big it was decided not to finish it. He gave it to me when it became obvious that he wouldn't find an application, but now it's in a cigar box in MY basement and not getting finished. If anybody has any kind of idea what this is or anything about its history, I would like to hear about it. It could best be described as a sort of DST version of a Ruger #1.

TIA for any information provided,
Charlie Shaeff, the Green Frog