doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 410 pistol

The rifling makes it a rifle. Not my logic, BATF. The H&R that Dave posted is a good example. People have been trying for years to get BATF to allow them, no dice. I gave up the thought of buying one, once I spoke to BATF and they explained the necessary paperwork.

If you are in possession of the receiver and the barrel, you are potentially in violation of the law, unless the gun was originally registered and you are in possession of the tax stamp.

As for the LeMat, I have no idea what their logic was / is.

Pete

Just a guess,but the rifling makes a round traceable in the mind onf the ATF.A 410 slug out of a SBS pistol leaves no unique markings.?

George, thanks. I saw an original Lemat appraised once on The Antique Road Show at about $20K iirc.

Brent

This might have been stated already, but the Lemat has a separate shotgun barrel underneath the rifled barrel and this barrel is not rifled. It's a moot point as was already stated because muzzleloaders are exempt from this silly law. I used to have a Pietta reproduction of the Lemat and shot it a few times, neat pistol, wish I still had it.

As for the gun in question, what would happen if somebody back in the 30's, prior to the law of course, rifled the last 1/2 inch or so? Even if it was just scratch rifling would this make the gun legal today?

"People have been trying for years to get ATF to allow them. I once talked to ATF and they explained the neccesary paperwork." Well which is it, Pete?? Do they not allow them or is there just some neccesary paperwork? What say we let the guy check it out and get some correct information. As I understand it, if it's pre 1898, it's not a gun under Federal law.

For the purposes of the NFA, an Antique Firearm is a weapon made in 1898 or before being a muzzle loader that has not been designed or redesigned to use conventional rim of centerfire ammunition,,or a repro thereof,,,,,and any cartridge firearm made in 1898 or before using a cartridge no longer manufactured in the US,, AND,, is no longer available in normal commercial trade channels.
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Note the deffinition is slightly different from that used in the rest of the GCA, as are all the definitions used in NFA.
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An application to BATFE on the proper form to manufacture a new AOW can be made. The fee (tax stamp) is $200. You may not start to manufacture the weapon till OK'd by BATFE. Transfer/sale of the AOW/weapon to anyone else cost the buyer a $5 transfer tax stamp fee. The transfer stamp tax fee for the rapid running stuff is still $200.
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FWIW..The BATFE has on it's list of AOW's,,cartridge handgun
with a concealment 'wallet holster' from which the handgun may be fired w/o removing the gun from the 'wallet'. Neither by itself is an NFA item. Cane guns and pen guns are also on the list. An ever evolving list due to changing availability of ammo calibers and also the Technologys Branch findings and experiments.

You cannot register a currently unregistered NFA weapon. They are contraband. Should a non NFA weapon be reclassified to NFA status, a usual 60 or 90 day 'registration' period is given. after that, all non registered guns are contraband. The streetsweeper shotguns are one of the latest in that catagory I can think of.

The last full NFA amnesty was Dec. 1968 for that month only IIRC. One exception was the 30day amnesty extended to active duty US Service Personel out of the country during 12/68 but returning stateside during 1969. That fact was rarely if ever made public.
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Go to this link,,
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEIB-GB.pdf
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ATF Guidebook-Importation
sift through most of the info as it pertains to importation and is not related but near the middle there is a section that contains definitions, explantions, diagrams re: NFA weapons.
Also other interesting info regarding serial numbers, import markings, and proper way to 'demill' those sten guns you've been wanting to import from Zimbabwe.

and any cartridge firearm made in 1898 or before using a cartridge no longer manufactured in the US,, AND,, is no longer available in normal commercial trade channels.

We treat any normal shotgun from 1898 or before as an antique evern though they shoot readily available shotshells like 12g. Am I missing something here?

That is what you are missing. The short bbl shotgun comes under control of the National Firearms Act, which went in effect in the 1930's, '32 I believe was stated.

These come under the jurisdiction of the 1968 Gun Control Act

These ESSEX single shot 410 shotgun pistols were made sometime after 1908 to the best of my knowledge. My Grand Father would win them as a prize for selling a certain amount of candy in Tennessee. My Father was between 11 and 19 years old when these shotgun pistols were being given away as prizes and Dad was born in 1908. When I was 12 or 13 or 14 we would try to shoot skeet with one of them, I could hit about 1 out of 9 clays at the best with it. A good friend of my Dad's had a SXS 28 gauge shotgun pistol, it was very neat but 28 gauge ammo was hard to come by and I do not remember ever seeing it fired at all. Jent

Handigun!