doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com C.K. Ansorg?

Hi all, what can any of you tell me about this maker and his gun?

Thanks so much!!

Greg

One of the Ansorg boys from Mehlis & Zella-Mehlis, Germany. I'd have to see a pic of a longarm as his may have spanned the spectrum of German guns and I'll bet August H. Ansorg made the tubes for his guns. There was some relationship between Greifelt and Ansorg as some Greifelts are marked C. K. Ansorg. And with Greifelt, Emil Schlegelmilch was a founder with Oskar Jung being in the top command tier at the onset of WWI.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have a C. K. Ansorg Drilling that is also marked Hof a Salle, which I am told is the city of manufacture. It is 16ga. X 16ga. X 8x57R. It appears to be a high quality very ornately and heavily engraved piece with claw mounts and rear sight which flips up when the rifle barrel is selected. The original triggerguard which I believe was made of horn is missing. I guess I'll be watching this thread as I too would like to know more about this gun and it's maker.

I've seen that city/river stamp where Ansorg was probably a firearms merchant near the Czech border where there was a shooting community/militia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hof,_Germany , that is if I have the Hof a Salle correct. All of the address for the Ansorg folk as master gunsmiths, gun-works was around Mehlis, Zella-Mehlis.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

With our virtual playground now back open, C.K.(Konrad????-just a guess) Ansorg must have been a big fan of St. Nic. as from the mid to late 1920s he self published(eigenverlag) a Christmas catalogue. If you search the term "eigenverlag CK Hof ad Saale" and use the translator, you should find a catalogue. I thought of a purchase but it was more than $100 Euro and I don't own an Ansorg yet. He was listed in 1920 in the Zella-Mehlis directory and may have moved by the mid 1920s, or may just have had a firearm merchant's store in Hof ad Saale.

I think it to be here, http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...l%3Den%26sa%3DG , but due to all the rain my phone/internet infrastruture is quite handicaped.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, Thanks for the info, though I was hopeful that someone out there knew more about this maker and his guns. I suppose it's very possible that this gunmaking concern did not survive WWII. Greg, as you initiated this thread, I'm wondering if you actually have or have seen a double or drilling by C. K. Ansorg and could tell us about it. My drilling was liberated from Germany after the war by a soldier who had been released from a POW camp near Erfurt. I had also bought a 16 Ga. Hermann Eichorn sidelock double, from the same gent, that was made in Erfurt.

For sure, his concern didn't survive WWI and I don't know his date of birth, but it looks as when the mastergunsmith became older he leaned towared being a firearms merchant only. On the Grefielts marked C.K. Ansorg, I would guess Ansorg being the agent/firearms merchant in Hof a.d. Saale. A poster may exist somewhere.

Keith what is the city stamp on your drilling, Hof a.d. Saale or Hof a. Salle?

About the only means in obtaining info is to get the trade catalogues, if any exist, and possibly decipher the maker/firearm merchant's mark on the examples of their fine work. Eichorn, I don't know, but was probably a gunsmith/firearm merchant that sourced components from Suhl.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hi all, well in answer to Keiths question. I have not seen one yet, but I did buy one, here it is:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/908900464/Guns/Shotguns/Double-Shotguns/German/Greifelt_by_C_K_Ansorg.htm

I posted this before, but I got it for $1650 shipped.

Thanks also Raimey for your explaination on the Greifelt being marked C.K. Ansorg. I was wondering about this.

Thanks all for all your comments!

Greg

Raimey, Sorry for the delay, but I finally dug out the gun. It is marked C. K. Ansorg on rt. bbl. and Hof A. Saale on the left bbl. Both shotgun bbls. are marked Bohler*Stahl. It is a double underlug with a crossbolt thru the barrel extension. It has sideclips and near 100% coverage engraving with a Roe deer on the right and a bugling stag on the left in forest scenes. Rifle barrel is stamped 7,8 x 57 with 338 under that. Nitro proof marks along with many other proof marks and Suhl stamped on all barrels on bottom. I was told the missing trigger guard was probably horn, but the inletting seems more slender than I would associate with the horn guards I've seen. I'm not sure how horn guards are attached. This one has the typical rear wood screw and threaded stud forward of the triggers type of attachment.

Keith:

Is it a longarm proofed/proved in March 1938? Looks like there might be a file beginning on Ansorg with another post showing him as a firearms merchant in Wurzburg. GGCA sells the horn in the rough. If it has the menancing muzzle along with the forest scenes, I would venture a guess of a horn triggerbow.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimy, Is GGCA the Georgia Gun Collectors Assn.? Also, I'm not familiar with the term "menancing muzzle". Could you please explain? Thanks, Keith

Galazan sells horn trigger gaurds. Look on there web site at
http://www.csmcspecials.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PH200

By the way, GJW congradulations on your purchase it looks like a very beautiful shotgun.

Hi Keith, GGCA is the German Gun Collectors Assn.

http://www.germanguns.com/

All the best!!

Greg

P.S. Thanks wburns!

gjw, That probably woulda been my second guess... had I taken a moment to think. Thanks, Keith

"Menancing muzzle" is a term I lifted from probably Klups to describe the cross-hatching between the tubes at the muzzle. If a longarm has sling swivels, horn triggerbow, cheekpiece, cocking indicators, etc., there should be cross-hatching between the tubes at the muzzle. If you see one with the above and the tubes aren't in integer cm length along with very open chokes and the cross-hatching isn't present, then the tubes more than likely have been cut. Regarding the horn triggerbow, there should be an infinity, figure eight slot just forward of the triggers with the forward of the 2 holes a little larger than the rear. A screwhead, or the like, would pass thru the larger hole and be drawn/snapped into the smaller rear slot. If you see a Germanic longarm with a hole in the receiver either infront of or behind the threaded part of a metal triggerbow, more than likely some unscrupulous screw-turner has threaded the hole and fitted a metal triggerbow in place of the horn. I haven't check Galazan's price, but at the GGCA booth at gunshows, exhibits and the like, they usually have horn pieces in the $30 range. They will also refer you to folk who do horn work.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

My Ansorg does have the cross-hatching between the tubes and sling swivels, cheekpiece, but no cocking indicators. If the threaded hole forward of the triggers is evidence of an unscrupulous screw turner installing a steel guard at some point, he sure did a nice job. And I wonder where his steel guard went. Did some drillings of this type use metal rather than horn guards? I hope so even if it means I have the added problem of duplicating the engraving style on a replacement. It's a shame to just leave it as it is for as long as I have. Thanks, Keith

Yes they definitely had engraved metal as well as horn. Horn may have fallen out of style by WWI, but that's just a guess as I have a Gustloff shotgun with a horn triggerbow and I've seen pics of a double rifle from the last 1920s with horn. But frames for horn guards had 2 holes with the upper one begin larger than the lower one. Will you post a pic?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Raimey. I will post a pic as soon as I get around to replacing my broken digital camera... and learning how. I figured I'd do that when the prices dropped further after Christmas. And that assumes I don't spend too much at the Washington County, Pa. gun show this weekend. Priorities, you know?

Yeah, I'd put the camera off for a bit. You might find some deals since it looks like every Tom, Dick & Harry is trying to peddle some AR15 variant at 2 or 3 times the price and all the 5.56/223 or 7.62X39 ammo you can tote.

I flipped thru "The Drilling" by Klups and apparently horn has made it into the 21st Century as it looks to be available as an option with Kreighoff and possibly others. I think horn as a triggerbow was to prevent you bare fingers from sticking to the metal or absorbing the cold temps from the metal.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse