doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 410 pistol

You are probably thinking of the Taurus "Judge", but it also shoots a .41 long (I think), and is rifled. The rifleing is what makes the new crop of .410 pistols legal. The coolest I have seen is a sxs "road warrior" type pistol with 10 inch barrels...Geo

Upon reflection, it might be that it is the fact that the gun will shoot a bona-fide pistol cartridge rather than the rifleing that makes'em legal.

Well, I'm learning something new here I guess.

Still not sure why the need for rifling though.

The original Lemat was not rifled and Pietta makes a copy of it. I do not know if the repro is rifled.

FWIW...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver

These wonderful curiosities of a bygone era were made illegal without the tax stamp by the 1932 gun control act which outlawed sawed-off shotguns.

What Cools,Dave is describing is basically the same as ther coach gun here;
http://www.jcdevine.com/auction/catalog.aspx?Auction=2806&Sec=1&pg=5
If it can fire a "pistol" caliber then its a pistol,that sounds like a SBS as it is smooth bore.

He must have a From 4 or he is looking at 250K and 10 years with OJ.
"M8) What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him? [Back]

Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself.

[49 U.S.C. 781-788, 26 U.S.C. 5861 and 5872] "


Destroy it up and make it go away,far away.

Those Auto and Burglar are neat !
Ithaca Auto burglar

All smooth-bored bbls are required by law to be a minimum of 18" in length. All the "Legal" guns firing a .410 (or other shot-cartridges) have rifling in them. An original LeMatt would not fall under this law as it is muzzle loader, not a cartridge gun. The old Stevens Tip-Up, H&R Handi-Gun, Marble Game-Getter & the Ithaca Auto-Burglar etc all fall under this category & were required to be registered by the National Firearms Act of the 30's. I was thinking 1934, but it may have been '33. A transfer tax is required every time one is sold. At some point in time, I think it was shortly after the '68 Gun law took affect a grace period was given & anyone who owned one of these without registration could register it for a fee of, as I recall $50.00.
If you set up & simply bore the rifling out of an ordinary revolver bbl, such as a .45 Colt You have converted it into an "Illegal" "Sawed Off Shotgun". Some years ago Harvey Donaldson tried to set up a buisness of doing this, thinking it would be legal as they did not fire ordinary Shotshells, but was ruled against & had to cease.
A Muzzle attachment can be applied to eliminate or minimize the effect of the rifling & the gun remain legal, or most of the bore can be smoothed, leaving only a "Rifled Choke" & it remain legal, but it Can't be "Smooth All the Way". So much for the BATF's "Logic"

hmmm, maybe straight rifling?

I bet there are a bunch of illegal Houda pistols out there as well as the original Lemats (but maybe the Lemats are exempt being percussion guns). Well, never wanted for one so I guess, I won't worry too much but good to know.

Brent

BTW: Hunter Arms made one also. Check out the top gun.

Additional restrictions may apply in many other jurisdictions. State and local laws may entirely prohibit civilian possession of short-barrelled shotguns. (These restrictions do not apply to military and police departments.) In addition, some firearm types that would normally be considered to fall into the Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS) category are not legally considered to be a SBS. A shotgun is legally defined as a shoulder mounted firearm that fires shot. Shotguns and shotgun receivers that have never had a buttstock of any type installed are not shotguns, as they cannot be shoulder mounted. Therefore, cutting one of these below the 18" barrel and/or 26" overall length cannot produce a SBS as the firearm was never a shotgun. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives recognizes these firearms as being a smooth bore handgun which is an Any Other Weapon (AOW). Unlike a SBS, an AOW only carries a $5.00 tax and can be moved interstate without Federal approval. However, to maintain its AOW status, one may generally not have a buttstock (making it a SBS) or a rifled slug barrel (making it a Destructive Device (DD); a handgun with a bore over 0.5"). Both SBS and DD weapons require a $200.00 transfer tax and prior Federal approval to transport interstate.

If this were mine I'd go ahead and get it registered as any other weapon(AOW) provided there are no local restrictions in your case. You have a smooth bore handgun and I see these along with brand new silencers being registered at my club from time to time.
Jim

Brent: I have seen several of these come to the auction house. My advice to the owners was to either keep it as a curiosity or family heirloom or contact BATF anonomously and enquire as to registration. I believe that it might now fall under the "RELIC & CURIO" classification.

Just My Thoughts.....George

"(M2) How can an individual legally acquire NFA firearms? [Back]

Basically, there are 2 ways that an individual (who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from receiving or possessing firearms) may legally acquire NFA firearms:

By transfer after approval by ATF of a registered weapon from its lawful owner residing in the same State as the transferee.


By obtaining prior approval from ATF to make NFA firearms.

[27 CFR 479.62-66 and 479.84-86 ]



(M3) What is the tax on making an NFA firearm? [Back]

The tax is $200 for making any NFA firearm, including "any other weapon."



Unless you are a manufacturer you can NOT register a NFA (SBS or AOW) weapon.
Do what you want but I prefer my "family heirloms and curio's" not be evidence that would put me in prison !To advise someone otherwise is scary.