doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Desperate times?

Thats pure rubbish EDM. Rubbish. If a potential buyer ask all the right questions (example...Is the gun 100% original? Has the gun been sleeved? Is there any pitting in the barrels? etc.) and buys the gun off of what that dealers answers were and the gun shows up not as described...then that dealer is a LIAR and a CHEAT. Regardless of his refund policies. Nobody likes having there time wasted and money spent when it need not be.

I've sent two guns back to Steve for the same reasons Serban did. NOT AS FREEKIN DESCRIBED. I will not make that mistake again. I can care less what his "national reputation" is to other people, I care about how I was dealed with. He sold me a Fox that he said we restored by Turnbull, I said are you sure, he said YES, 100% positive. I called Turnbull, gave them the serial number and guess what.....They never had that gun in their shop. HUH. Would you not say that is a lie???? The second gun went back because again, I asked if the barrels had ANY pitting in them, his answer was "NO", "they are bright and shiny, like new"....when I picked up the gun, took a look down the barrels, you guessed it..pits running damn near the full length of the tubes...I put the thing back in box and sent it back, that was strike three. Never again.

Serban is one of the good guys, a real stand up fella who feels he got lied to by a "respectable" dealer, and from what I can tell by his story....I believe him and he was right to call him out and warn others.

And the thing about driving to each and every sellers store to check out the merchandise before you buy, GET REAL dude. Is that what you do??? Just not a real practical thing to do for most people, especially people who buy alot of guns throughout the year. Ridiculous, seriously.

Dustin

To EDM and others who think the problem described by Silver is unusual or just sour grapes. Yes, Steve Barnett Fine Guns has a fine reputation. BUT...the price paid is not insignificant and the story is a way of life for many dealers. So here's another story about this same dealer...all can come to their own conclusions.

About 1 1/2yrs ago I ordered a Beretta ASE90 for a client from Barnett Fine Guns based on the description provided on the company web site and phone conversations. The price was similar to Silver's at $5,500. The ASE90 was described as LIGHTLY used, the factory original second trigger group as brand new in the wrapper (never used), and no problems what so ever with the mechanics or cosmetics of the gun. Here is what I received.

This ASE90 was shot so heavily that the hammers showed indentations from the firing pins. Both of the trigger groups were heavily worn (not even close to new or lightly used). The side ribs (both sides as I recall) had separated from the barrels at the breach end and flopped around making a nice dull "thudding" sound with the barrels and forend removed.

Now, does anyone here think this is a reasonable description of a ANIB gun? Do you think Mr. Barnett and his sales manager should have noted the problems in both written description and verbal Q&A? I do.

Bottom line: I phoned to return the gun immediately, as it took only a few minutes to note the problems. Barnett Fine Guns approved the return over the phone without explanation.

Now for Act II: Even after all my efforts at prompt communication and my client paying the out of pocket expenses for shipping to and from Mr. Barnett's place of business....IT TOOK TWO MONTHS TO RECEIVE THE 5K REFUND!!!!

Frankly, credible is a credible does, and this is another instance where reputation and ethical conduct do not match up very well...no excuse for any dealer to live off of someone else's money having provided nothing of value in return.

Now for Act III: the gun reappeared on Barnett's web site immediately on return (months before refund), and the description had not changed by one word...it was still a ANIB ASE90 as far as the dealer was concerned even though all problems were noted and could be seen by a blind man.

Frankly, if others wish to do business with this company and those ethics, that's there affair, but I will not be doing business with him again in this lifetime.

EDM
Sliver asked the seller specific questions about the gun only to learn that the guns actual condition did not support the verbal answers he was given over the phone, in other words he was lied to about various aspects of the guns condition. I don't care to be lied to and I support his position.
Oh poo to you sir!
Steve

EDM
If a "knowledgable dealer" does not see a rifle barrel that has been relined and a scope that is buggered up with mounts that are a mess should you hold him accountable? I can see cutting some fellow who does not know guns from butter missing the items described but not a dealer who knows his butt form a whole in the ground. The dealer, "in the trade", needs to look at what they are selling and be honest in answering questions that are asked. We are not talking about a fifty dollar item here.

Fix what needs to be fixed, or state what are the problems in the listing. Easy to do. Tell the truth when asked. Again, easy to do. When you make a mistake and cause someone to waste time and money in shipping a gun two ways refund the shipping if it is your fault. Not asking him to do this for a gun returned simply because the buyer changed his mind. Seller screwed up by either not answering the questions honestly or by not spotting basic things that we all suspect he could spot very easily if he tried. You would not put up with this from a car dealer. Why should you do it from a gun dealer?

The above posts at least to me are a catalogue of reasons why anyone should think once,twice or three times before buying a gun from a dealer or anyone unknown to them for that matter on the Internet. It would be in everyones interest for the owner of this site to pin this thread to serve as a future warning. In the few instances I've bought a firearm on line I've been singularly unimpressed or outright disappointed with what I've received so I've quit buying this way.
Jim

EDM,

To answer your questions.
I buy guns because they are beautiful. I also buy guns to shoot them. I think the combination of beauty and function is unsurpassed in certain guns.
I bought the gun as a package, the gun with the scope. If the scope is not functional it serves nothing of what it is supposed to do. To have a new scope fitted to the fast release mounts is not quite cheap. I think Champlin Arms quotes somewhere in the $800 and up for the job. I even ordered rifle ammo to try the accuracy of the rifle barrel, but did not try it as it was clear from the start that it wouldn't work.
As of traveling to see the gun, that would be ideal but impractical for obvious reasons. As I said, it is not that I had to pay shipping, that's a small detail.
I asked once a DG Forum listed dealer to e-mail me pictures of a gun he has on his site and he said that if I am ready to buy a 5K gun I should be ready to pay shipping both ways if I did not like it, because he wasn't the kind that works with pictures. If we are to do this with all guns that we see listed, we would end up spending a lot more before we'd like what is sent to us. Obviously, I did not deal with him. If I happen to be in his store one day I would certainly enjoy looking at his guns. Sending pictures is standard procedure these days and it would only help selling an item as long as there is nothing to hide. I think that the internet is a great tool to buy and sell as long as we can count on each other's honesty and common sense.

To me, the definition of a functional scope is one that can be mounted solidly on a gun and be adjusted for POI in a repetitive way. I am certain that my definition is not far from yours. My mistake was that I took this for granted and did not ask Mr. Barnett about his own definition of a functional scope.

I would never think to expect a refund of my shipping cost to return the gun. Misrepresention, bad photos or whatever, you take your chances on an internet gun sale. If the seller promptly refunds what you paid him, I'd be satisfied. If I simply changed my mind (like if my beloved found me out and insisted)and I undertook to return the gun, I'd expect to pay shipping both ways...Geo

Bill Davis, I was not criticizing the dealer, but, he has not fronted any money, I did that when I paid him in full for the gun. His offer of a full refund was only after the receipt of the insurance proceeds, not upon my return of the gun. The dealer has been extremely helpful in resolving this, but, it is not fully resolved and will not be until the PO pays the full insurance claim and the gun is restocked to my satisfaction. I fully expect this to happen but until it does I'm out my money, time and effort.

Mike

Geo,

You are right. I asked for the shipping cost refund only once. I received no response. I did not find it worth spending any more of my time arguing.
I started the topic because I felt offended being lied straight out and I felt it was worth putting it out so that others would know of my experience.
With that said, one can read whatever one thinks out of my topic. I will put it to rest, now.

TWO THREADS ON HERE TELL OF THE SAME EXPERIENCE WITH BARNETT AND HIS "FINE" GUNS......THAT SHOULD SAY IT "ALL".....THE GUY LIES, PERIOD....HE WOULD PROBABLY DO THE SAME IN HIS STORE.....