doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Blown Baker

Wow. No doubt. That simple huh? I guess that about sums it up. Well, Joe..thanks again.

Dustin

I also, like LeFusil, wonder about the Krieghoff blowups that we have all read about but never seen. The Krieghoff that I shoot the most, tens of thousands of rounds, was made in 1967. I also see Sherman Bell's blowup research as pretty definitive, and the best we will see in our lifetimes. I also seem to remember mention that Twist Steel barrels seem to be equal or better than Damascus in some blowup tests. I don't know whether that was part of Sherman Bells experimentation or someone elses.

"...once again a totally unrecognizable genie has unbuttoned his pants and urinated on the pillar of science" - E.K. Gann

Bill is correct that Twist/English Skelp performed well in the 1891 Trial
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_242cxhh9hfq

Damascus quality is best judged based on the overall quality of the gun since we can very rarely identify the actual maker.

Price comparisons help also. Ferdinand Drissen was a Liege gun maker http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20drissen%20gb.htm
The conversion of Belgian francs to U.S. dollars in 1900 was about 5 francs to 1 dollar. The complete charge for the barrels and gunsmithing for '3 band Crolle' was 80 francs or about $16. Barrels 2-6 were each a Twist variant, and obviously much cheaper to produce



In 1900, Jean Lejeune of Nessonvaux listed the following prices for damascus barrels alone: 'Oxford'-16f, 'Boston'-10f ($2), and 'Birmingham'- 8f
In 1914, Arthur Delvaux-Heuve of Nessonvaux offered '3 Band Boston' and 'Star' for 14 francs.

Doc that's a JABC...Just Another Belgium Clunker. http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20drissen%20gb.htm

Might be time for a new term JAAGWBCB....Just Another American Gun With Belgium Clunker Barrels.

I'll answer this as simply and as straight forward as I possibly can. If you or anyone else truly believes that damascus barrels are really as strong as modern fluid steel barrels go get one of the major shotgun manufacturers to make you up a brand new gun with damascus barrels with a full guarantee. IMO; The corporate lawyers will kill this idea in a heartbeat. Read liability in this statement.
Understand where I'm coming from here. I truly admire the craftmanship and artistry involved in damascus barrel making. I also understand it's 19th century craftmanship and totally surpassed for practicality and strength in the 20th and 21st Century. If you as an individual want to continue shooting these beautiful relics from the past do so at your own risk.
I draw the line when this is promoted as a safe activity to others.
Jim

Jim,
Greener is using old unused damascus tubes on new guns so at least the English think they are safe. The proof house also will still give an old damascus gun nitro proof so they must think they are safe also.
It looks to me like the Baker in question came apart from a over pressure incident of unknown cause. A modern gun could and likely would do the same. This does not mean any damascus gun is safe but they are not dangerous if one is careful. And as Sherman bell showed they may take much more pressure than one would expect even when in poor condition.
Cheers,
Laurie

There's always that "next time" when you pull the trigger Jim...

I discussed the blowing up of barrels at my local skeet and trap range. They shoot between 1 and 3 million rounds a year at this place depending on the economy mostly. Now it is more in the range of 1 1/2 million rounds a year because a lot of guys shoot sporting clays instead of skeet and trap around here. They have been in business for 35 years. They have had three guns blow up in all those years. Each one of those guns had non factory reloads in them. They have never had a gun blow up with factory loads. This is not a comment on damascus since few people around here shoot it and all these guns were steel barreled. Draw your own conclusions if you like.

That evidence puts things in perspective.