doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How much for a Purdey or Holland & Holland Shooter

I have been looking for either a Purdey or Holland & Holland SxS to purchase (double trigger, ejectors and simple engraving). This will be my first big dollar gun. Based on the great recommendations from the members of the forum, I purchased several books and have been learning as much as I can about shotguns. I still have a lot to learn, but I would like to start searching for a gun since it may take quite a while to find the right gun.

I am not interested in purchasing either a rare or perfect gun. Since I would like to actually use the gun for upland birds, I have no need for a perfect exhibition museum piece. However, I do not want a gun that has been abused and on its last legs.

I am hoping to purchase a gun for $10K to $20K, but I do not know if this is possible. Given my criteria, I would think my budget is reasonable, but I could be wrong. So, what should I realistically expect to spend for a gun? While the books are great for learning about shotguns, I cannot find any good sources as to pricing.

Also, are there any forums of website that focus on Purdey or Holland & Holland guns? After numerous Google searches I came up empty handed.

Thanks.
Ken

I just had a commission very similar to what you are asking for.

My client had a budget of £7000 for a Purdey hammerless sidelock ejector. i sourced a gun for him at £4100 and, once the necessary work has been completed by Purdey-trained gunsmiths, the final bill to the client was £5000.

For your budget you will get a very usable Purdey sidelock for £7000; a much better one for £10,000. For £15,000 you will have a gun to die for.

So,the short answer is 'Yes' you can have what you want for your budget. With Holland's, consider the 'Badminton' - a best gun in every respect except rather less engraving than on a 'Royal' - very good value at around £5000 for a good 'un.

Start with a good action, free from alteration or serious wear or defects. The rest of the value of the gun will be primarily in the barrels and secondarily in the woodwork. Thnner barrels will drop the price. New barrels by another maker will drop the price, sleeving or lining will drop the price. Strangely, new barrels by the maker rather than original barrels in perfect condition will drop the price.

If the stock is awful it can be worth buying cheap and having it re-stocked to suit you.

You have the means to buy yourself a very nice Purdey or Holland. Happy hunting.

check out:
http://www.gavingardiner.com

http://www.holtandcompany.co.uk

http://www.christies.com

yous hould find some inspiration.

best

Dig

Try,

http://www.thadscott.com

Regards,

Max

kdr - "simple engraving" means house pattern? Send me a email address if you run Excel or a land address if you don't and I'll send you a file on Brit/Continental pricing. My prices are typical market for USA retail of a 12 gauge SxS made in the 1890ish to 1960ish time frame. It uses factors of maker's name for Brand Value level, gun model for Original Quality grade (not all Purdey/H&H are best guns), and an estimation of Current Condition. The pricing is a fairly straight forward 3-D matrix - we just don't see guns placed in the matrix order, so pricing is a bit of a mystery to most people. Dealers, collectors, and trade students see enough guns to develop an intuition about price.

I very much agree with Small Bore's pricing. I'd add that for $40,000 you can buy a pristine example (takes longer to find, but they do come on the market) and, should you decide to go mizerly, for $5,000 you can buy a gun that will need a lot of money spent on it to be satisfactory.

Dig, new barrels always beg the question of what happened to the old ones and suggest that the gun has been shot excessively. The market is alarmed at the possibility of wear to lever work, hinge points, and locking surfaces - these are the easiest and cheapest of things to fix. The costs of real barrel work (beyond refinish) and real wood work (beyond repair/refinish) are usually underestimated and the cost of mechanicals is usually overestimated.

Ken,

Dig (alias Smallbore) is not blowing his own trumpet enough! If you want a good one at the right price I believe Dig wiould be able to source one for you direct from a London Auction - he will have the choice of many many examples in your price bracket, (something which would not normally be possible as many US dealers will not have in stock the shear number or choice of London guns that are available at these sales.

I wouldn't hesitate to go this route myself If I was resident in the states. Failing that hop on a plane and spend a little time in London whilst you visit the auction houses !

Jonty

Jonty you beat me to it!

I second what you say about Dig (Smallbore). Ken, take a look at his webpage:
http://www.vintageguns.co.uk

JC(AL)

You've got a bit of a challenge on your hands. Everyone wants a Purdey or a H&H Royal, so finding a decent one at a fair price is not an easy thing to do.

It can be done, though.

First, though, a few questions:

-Do you know your measurements? If you don't, I would head over to G&H for a fitting. Once you have your measurements you'll have a much better idea what kind of gun is right for you. Restocking a Purdey or H&H Royal is expensive ($5,000+), so you want to buy a gun that measures up to your dimensions.

-What length bbls do you want? Some guys want 30", some are OK with 28" - 30".

-What kind of shooting are you going to do the most - upland game, sporting clays, waterfowl, pigeons? If you're going to shoot a lot of sporting clays, I would want a heavy proof gun in the 7.5 lbs range. If you're going to hunt grouse and pheasants, a standard game gun will be just fine.

As for places to find Purdeys & H&Hs, I would concentrate on the dealers listed at doublegun.com and here at doublegunshop.com.

Most of the dealers in the US are on one of these two sites.

Other guys to check out are:

http://jaquas.com/

http://www.finefirearms.com/


I've dealt with Jaquas and they seem to be OK. I've never dealt with the guys at Fine Firearms, but he has some nice stuff.

I would also look for guns at gunsamerica.com. There are a few Purdeys there now that may work for you.

I would also watch the US auction houses, especially these guys:

http://www.juliaauctions.com/

This Purdey was in there last auctions:

http://www.jamesdjulia.net/firearm/oct06/catalog_detail.asp?Details=60727

It did not sell. It may be back this spring with a lower reserve. I checked it out and it looked like a nice gun.

The biggest think you need to do is enlist the assistance of a gunsmith who is an expert in English firearms.

Before you buy any gun, you have to have this 'smith review and inspect it. This is extremely important - I cannot stress it enough. Do not buy a gun without having a 'smith look it over. Do NOT trust a dealer's or auction-house's evaluation of a gun. I don't care who it is - don't do it.

If you want some more info, drop me a PM and I would be happy to help you out.

Good luck.

OWD

Good luck with your quest. Don’t buy the first one you see, take advice from someone knowledgeable. Don’t be swayed by those who say “buy the gun not the name”. I have been down that route, you’ll end up with two guns, believe me.

Get something made before World War one and You’ll have a work of hand made engineering art that will never be repeated
Incidentally why H&H, and Purdey but not Boss?

Rocketman, I have seen perfectly servable barrels ruined by laziness and lack of cleaning. I think that you would have to shoot lead an awful long time to wear out a set of barrels.

If Boss, H&H, or Purdey, why not Woodward?

Derek - there are plenty of reasons why a relatively new/servicable gun may have new, replacement barrels. But the market is not very sophisticated at "cyphering out" that "why." The market solves the delima by discounting the price. The buyer may well be getting newer and better barrels, but there always remains that nagging, suspicious question of "Why?" Even if you are satisfied that you know "why" and it is OK, any potential future buyer may not be so sure and will likely discount your price. Anything non-OE must be approached with eyes wide open.

What could the story behind this lot be considering the estimate? I know it could
well end up going through the roof, but they must base it on some experience.

http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0001&LotRef=115

Ken, if it stays within the estimated margins you could well get a nice pair ;-)

JC(AL)