doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT - steel shot in Heavy Duck Model 12?

I bet shortened and tubed "Heavy Duck" M12 would make a wonderful flushing turkey gun.
Makes me wonder when that Sherman Bell finds out something useful for himself like using iron shot in ole' tightly choked doubles. Lets face it, who give a shit about ole' twist barrel Parker under-lever being able to hold up to Remi Pb proof load. It's a waste of perfectly good proof loads.

So am I to assume that all those bbls that were bulged , scratched , or otherwise damaged , before steel shot was mandatory for waterfowl hunting , were caused by people useing steel shot before it was the law ?

What both Murphy and I are saying is that steel shotshells made today are a lot different than ones made in 1985. They have super thick shotcups, the shot is plated so it doesn't rust, and they'll actually kill birds just fine. The old stuff was none of of these things and would screw up a gun if you got unlucky.

All that being said, I don't use it in my Parkers, I buy those expensive shells that Murphy mentioned. But once my stock of those is gone I'll have to rethink my position as I can't afford them anymore. I might just buy a beater V grade and start banging away with Winchester Supremes.

DLH

I like the comment Markethunter made about modern steel shot shells, "they'll actually kill birds just fine". The most important thing to learn about steel shot shells is that the old wive's tale about their patterning is just that. Steel shot ammunition is just like any other ammunition. The more choke you put in front of the shot, the more shot goes into the paper. The "old wive's tale" for those who have no grey hair to aid in thinking and comprehension is as follows: "The tightest patterns with steel shot are shot with improved cylinder or modified chokes. The use of full chokes causes pattern dispersement and less effective patterns than those shot with more open chokes." In the great majority of cases, this is absolutely incorrect information, and, in my opinion, was put in the sporting media by writers who were influenced by the manufacturers in order to lessen the liability from barrel damage that was predicted from the effects of early steel shot on tightly choked guns. All pattern experimentation I have done over the years since the advent of steel shot ammunition has resulted in tighter patterns from tighter chokes. I have successfully killed big birds at extreme ranges with big loads of big steel shot for many years. I repeat, big shot, big loads. My experience is that those who complain about poor performance of steel shot are shooting light loads of small or medium size steel shot out of less than full choked guns that they have not patterned. They are also less than good shots and would have had bad results with lead shot in the same gun. I use, and have used for years for most of my waterfowl shooting, including ducks at more than decoying range, Winchester 1 3/4 ounce loads of steel #2 and BB in a tightly choked 3 1/2" ten gauge. I have never shot with another shooter who has had any better results from non steel no tox loads from any 12 gauge gun. I just wish my gun didn't weigh what it does. However, it is a small price to pay for shooting cheap ammunition with good results.

Post deleted by Run With The Fox

Were still waiting for the duck pictures.

Re: A recent poster's comment. The Model 21 Duck or any other Model 21 is not suitable for steel shot. The Model 21 3" guns are not made with dedicated thick barrels, unlike the factory 3" Model 12 which does have dedicated extra thick barrel. The Model 21 3" chambered gun and the identical Duck Model seldom weighs any more than 7 3/4 pounds in solid rib 30" persuasion. Oddly, it is not unpleasant to shoot with heavy loads, but probably because of the targets we normally shoot with it which take our minds off of recoil. By the way, I'll open those steel Federal shells first chance I get.

OK, I opened up one of the Federal shells that I found after long exposure to the elements on Bogue Sound. The shell has so much rust on the base that I don't think it would fit in a four gauge chamber. However, the shot is largely shiny and shows signs of being nearly fully protected from moisture and air. Tha bad news is that it doesn't seem to be steel unless Federal is using stainless. A magnet has no effect on it. Is steel shot normally magnetic? I assume it is. I should have realized that those NC waterfowlers would be using lead. I'm just as surprised that the lead shows very little evidence of oxidation, only minor discoloration on maybe on 20 pellets.

Bill, squeeze a pellet with a pair of pliers. If you can compress it, then it's not steel or tungsten-iron. If it does compress, then it's either lead or the old Federal tungsten-polymer. The fact that the pellets are not magnetic means it can't be steel. Federal also had their version of a duplex non-tox load that contained both tungsten-iron and steel pellets in the same shell, so check several pellets. If it's a reload, could be anyhting.

Replacement, thanks for the information. None of the shot is magnetic. It doesn't look like lead. It is shiny as a dime except for maybe twenty pellets. The pellets don't even look like the same size. It looks like a duplex load, but of what material? Federal answered an email from me last year so I may give that a shot. I'll open a shell and try to crush some pellets. I didn't realize I knew so little about shotgun shells. Actually, this discussion is a bit off topic. We were trying to verify Markethunter's suggestion that steel shot could rust under adverse conditions. I have been no help since this shell doesn't contain steel shot. Thanks again.