doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com I. Hollis & Son

Sorry for the bad pics, it was dark out and my friend wanted me to find out about his recent purchase. Is this a Beglian gun? It only has the black powder proofs and the cross ceptors(sp) not sure if thats correct. Not a bad double, but it looks Belgian. The dolls head and how the top lever is made with a simple slotted screw through doesn't look English at all.

I. Hollis was a prolific maker. I have owned or own quite a few of his guns. If it doesn't have the ELG mark it's not Belgian. Hollis made guns in all grades from the lowest to the best.

I Have an I Hollis & Son percussion ML'r & it carries Birmingham proofs. Not 100% positive, but I believe the Doll's Head originated with Westly Richards. I do know he was an early user of it & it was quite common on early English built guns.

It doesn't have the "ELG" mark.
Is it a 600.00 gun?

Crossed scepters would be the mark of the Guardians-Birmingham proofhouse used until 1904. 2-piper is correct in that Westley Richards patented the doll's head fastner in 1858 and perfected the bolted doll's head fastner in 1862.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Had an I Hollis &Son pigeon gun that was heck for stout and a fine shooter. Hollis was joined by Bentley and Playfair in his later years,

Battle I'm a dealer so to me no. I can get either a gun in that type/grade/condition cheaper or for the money I can get a better gun. Can the average Joe? It might take awhile but I think so.

Looks like someones been dicking around with the hinge pin screw.

Dunno what the market's like where you are but in the market I'm in, it'd be lucky to be 1/4 of that, in AUDs.
RG

What was the proper metal finishes on a damascus I. Hollis sidelock hammerless? Was the damascus black and white or browned and white? And the locks and other metal? I've got one that has had the barrels blued. Considering having all metal refinished.

jOe......not sure about the hinge pin.

I took the picture into photo shop and enlarged it.

What I thought was the "hinge pin screw head turned sideways" was just an engraving mark on the "drive in type hinge pin".

It's a really low grade Hollis...I'd look really close it looks low grade enough to be Belgium made.

Isaac Hollis & Sons.1861-1900, Gun Rifle and Pistol maker.
[Previously traded as Hollis and Sheath 1849-1861.]
This company was a large scale manufacturer of sporting guns primarily for the South African & Indian markets. They also produced cheap trade guns.
Their manufacturing locations were in Weaman Row & Lench Street, Birmingham.They maintained retail offices in London,at 83, Cheapside, 1871-1883 & 6,Great Winchester Street, 1884-1900. The gun pictured is typical of low end hammer guns made by other Birmingham makers of this era. For example; Midland Gun Company and Clabrough.

He was a prolific maker under his own name and also to the trade. He even made a few for Westley Richards. I have a boxlock Hollis that is exactly like a Westley 'Gold Name'; except for the name that is, and the fact it isn't in gold - well, you get my meaning. Lagopus.....

Here is a good example from Hollis,...this is a very well made hammer gun

CJ

C.J. I admire you Hollis! Looks to be equal to London,s Best. Many Birmingham made guns continue to be under valued in terms of their quality.This, despite the fact that so many so-called, "London guns," were completely made and finished in Birmingham.

This thread is another good example of the hazard in trying to associate "Original Quality" with a maker's (or seller's) name. To arrive at a passable estimate of price, you must factor in maker's name for "Brand Value" (BV), "Original Quality" (OQ), and "Current Condition" (CC). For the two guns pictured, the name is the same, but the original quality and the current condition are clearly different.

Hollis is a Brand Value level three (BV3) name. My system cuts off at 1890ish guns, although I now have a fair amount of data for hammerguns of earlier production. So, lets run a test and see how a prediction works out. I'll guess that it is Original Quality grade eight (OQ8) which would value it like a plain boxlock non-ejector. The Current Condition level appears to be between level six and level seven, "Shootable but needs some repairs and refinishing" (CC6) and "Shootable but needs repairs or restoration" (CC7). BV3-OQ8-CC6 = $430 and BV3-OQ8-CC7 = $300. On the other end of CC, would this gun in pristine condition (BV3-OQ8-CC1) be worth $1950?

Nice gun CJ. It looks as though it may have been a conversion from muzzle loader; style of fences, hammers and the bottom of the barrel - even the trade lable seems to point that way. Nice gun altogether. I wonder what others think of the possibility of a conversion. Lagopus.....

Here are a couple more pics of the Hollis and as you can see it is of great quality,...I also had one that was very close in resemblance to the first one pictured and they both have/had impeccable lockwork.

Lagopus,...not sure about your muzzle loader theory as this Hollis has fluid steel bbls

CJ

Nothing "muzzleloader" about that gun....with the exception of style.

The "muzzleloaderish" style is common enough on relatively early breachloaders. I'd bet the gunmakers had to do some scramble on workaway of stock muzzleloader parts when the break-open gun took over.

Rocketman you are right on that as they would have used up parts that were made for the earlier guns. The hammers are of the percussion type with the cupped noses to prevent fragments of the cap flying off, similarly the fences are shaped to also deflect percussion cap fragments and the metal butt plate so that the gun could be stood on the ground whilst being loaded. I would think that these common muzzle loader features would have continued in vogue for some time. It was just the shape of the barrel flats that puzzled me slightly. I have one or two early breech loaders that still show one or more of these features. Beautiful specimen none the less. Lagopus.....

Actually most muzzleloader hammers were vented to the front....I think the fences were retained on hammer guns in case gas got past the firing pins should a primer rupture.

Since it took a long time to convince the shooting public that the breechloader was more efficient than the muzzleloader, maybe gunmakers saw it that way to and purposely designed their guns to look similar to a muzzleloader as a selling point. Ease the transition in to the modern design and era!!!

I have a 10 gauge I. Hollis hammer gun that dates from the 1880s. It's in wonderful condition and I love shooting it. However, except for the engraving, it looks exactly like a number of Scott hammer guns I've seen pictured, which makes me wonder if Hollis simply bought them in and finished them or even just bought them fully finished with his name engraved on them.

I agree Remington40x there is something awful familiar about an Isaac Hollis, especially when you compare it to a Scott!!