doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com MisFire forum now available for off topic posts

Please place off topic posts in the new Misfire forum located here:

MisFire Forum @ doublegunshop.com for all off topic posts

Thank you,

PS - Sorry it took a while to add this forum. It is deer season and I have been out as often as possible. Still now deer but I am working on it!

PSS - If on occassion; I spy off topic posts in the primary forums and I have free time...I will move them to the new forum.

Davey-Boy, you are indeed the "Head Fred" on this BBS thingy. Wise move, might need to define "Off Topic"- my read: Anything that doesn't pertain to side-by-side doubles and the shooting thereof. RWTF

There's someone waiting for you there Foxey....

That's for the "Heads Up"- he'd best have his schmidt together and be able to pack it and stack it= Green Light- stand up and hook up!! RWTF

Big mistake Dave. You have a successful Forum that is not broken. Your "fix" isn't necessary and will lead to quibbling about "what is and what isn't" rather than the free exchange of unencumbered information.

I recently posted some stuff about choke boring as published in a 1718 Portuguese book --The Perfect Gun--that was pretty clearly on topic. But what if I had posted sections of the book about the secular and religious filter the manuscript had to pass through for publication? For example, the published "Licenses From the Holy Office" and the approval of the King's "Ordinary" at the front:

"I have seen the book entitled The Perfect Gun and can see nothing in it that might offend faith or morality...{and}...give authorization for the printing of the book ...and when printed it shall return for comparison to receive permission for its issue, without which it shall not be issued." (signed) a high church official.

"...and since it contains nothing which is against Your Majesty's laws, I hold it is worthy of being printed..." (signed) The Magistrate...

The Second Amendment is always a hot topic on doublegunshop.com

Now the First Amendment gets trashed (MisFire Forum = "Trash Bin") to protect the delicate sensibilities of...who?, who, for the most part, have little or nothing to contribute. Look at the quality of the posts above this one. Are these posts protected? What did they actually say in relation to double guns? Methinks you have started down the slippery slope while shooting yourself in the foot. Why you would devote any of your valuable time to becoming "Deputy Dog" is a puzzlement. EDM

I agree with Dave, The problem will be getting this trivia (and worst) properly posted there.

Quote:
"The Second Amendment is always a hot topic on doublegunshop.com"
I wholeheartedly agree with EDM on this. BTW: Obamas nominee for AG will be the most anti-gun occupant of that office since Janet Reno as he was her point man in that area.
He is the guy from the AG office that went before the Supreme Court and argued that the 2nd Amendment is NOT an individual right when the hearings were being conducted. We are going to collectively be in for the fight of our lives to maintain our rights and our childrens rights over the next 4 years.
The new "assault weapons ban" and closing the non-existent "gun show loophole" will be just the start of Obamas "sensible gun laws".
Burying a subject such as this in an off topic area is a mistake in my opinion.
Jim

Walter ol'chum, some of us find many things trivial - but so damn what! If it isn't your bag, move on down the line 'til you spot something you can put your teeth in.
Really Walter, I find your brand of gun as "trivia."
So there!

Lowell, you make my point, thank you! BTW We have no rights here. We post by the grace of Dave Weber. Any futher comment by me will be on the new OT section.

Walt: The 2nd Amendment only obtains to those who have the medium, be it printing press, radio, TV, and now the Internet. But as to posting thanks to the "grace" of somebody, being reminded of this makes it less fun. Too much less fun makes for a dull Forum, where conversation is reduced to quibbling about entry-level content...boring. EDM

Ed-agree 110%. But could there be a "typo" in your missile herein? Perhaps you mean the First Amendment. I support that with my heart (black that it may be) and soul- and recall a Frog stateman who once said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to freely say it!" And when the late Norman Rockwell painted his Four Freedoms series, which one did he do first? The gentleman standing to speak his mind in a town hall meeting. Do I have concerns that Mc(censored) and his Goons will stomp all over the Second Amendment? You bet your evil black rifle I do. And his "stooge" Joe Biden- our winter pistol league has ordered his image, along with various Towel-Head Terrorists, printed dead center on our 25 yard targets. Time to batten down the hatches and recall old sexpot actress Betty Davis' words "Fasten your seatbelts boys, it's gonna be a bumpy ride"!! RWTF

Hi!

I wonder me, if you can tell me about my Francotte musket, Carved by hand with a big head deer, it could be Root of walnut, but the arm only have the name A. Francotte Aliegi, but only that, not have year or any other mark on it, can you tell me some about this like price year etc? I think is not so expencive, so please help me

Best regards

...they could've had him any day but they let him slip away....

out of kindness I suppose

Had a peek here and think Dave is handling the issue prudently. Free speech doesn't enter into it. Nor does having fun. The board has provided wide leeway for expression. Misfire is a forum to have fun and say what you like about Other Things here, in another space, because there was egregious intolerance and abuse lowering the distinguished standard of this board.

Post deleted by King Brown

The RIGHT to keep and bear arms is the bedrock and the basis for the reason of even having this forum. Maintaining this RIGHT is an integal part of our hobby and the sole basis for enjoying this freedom that is denied to so many others.
We as a group will be under assault over the next four years like never before. The opening shot has been fired with the appointment of Eric Holden as A/G whose background as a gun grabber is well known. We can play osterich here and ignore this peril or stand up and fight as free men. If we don't do this no one else will.
Jim

You're right. The right to keep and bear arms is important. That's why there are 18,543 BBS's dedicated to discussions of just that. There's only one quality board dedicated to the discussions of double guns and single shot rifles and this is it. Look what happens on every single board when those who assume the rest of us to be so uninformed we NEED your enlightened opinions of current events and politics that if you didn't interrupt the subjects for which this board was created we ignorant, bumbling fools would never see the light as you perceive it. Those boards become Troll infested toilets and are diminished to the point of no longer having a reason to exist.

As much as I appreciate you constant, never ending desire to educate me, I can live without you. Dave established a specific area for you and the other three guys who can't seem to find the proper forum for these discussions. Quit whinning and go preach to each other.

Thanks Dave.

RWTF- Whether or not you like the result of the election, refering to the President as "Mc [censored]" is a racial slur which has no place in intelligent conversation. Please edit you post to remove it lest you contaminate the board,

By the way- what impression do you think using illustrations of living human beings, especially the Vice President of the United States, makes on new shooters and visitors to your club?

Cary

Quote:
"As much as I appreciate you constant, never ending desire to educate me, I can live without you"

No problem Cary:
Either add me to your ignore list or just don't read anything I post. What could be easier? Or perhaps you have another agenda here you don't wish to disclose? NOT reading something on a forum that doesn't interest you is the easiest thing to do. I do it all the time but I don't turn around and complain about people posting in these areas. I have no interest in "educating" you as your mind is clearly made up.
Jim

Gentlemen, and perhaps a lady or more:
Perhaps it will be helpful to consider the fate of the near defunct Shooting Sportsman BBS.
We may also wish to harken back to the 19th century. When a polite dinner was finished, the men retired to a room where they could/would, if inclined to do so,discuss and/or cuss to their heart's content.
That room often was the high-lite of the evening.
Best,
John.

Eh Pancho! Welcome aboard. Over the holiday, you may not get many answers about the musket in the new "hash and bash" forum. Label your question "OT" or "Off Topic" and move it over to the main discussion area. You'll get more response there altho may not be until early next week. If Mr. Weber is taking a hard and fast line on pigeonholing, he'll say so. In the meantime I'd assume it's "other fine firearms" rather than soapbox babble.

jack

I'd say, the sky's the limit ol'rab!
Long as you stay away from a Chamberish-type puke session.
Alotta replies to a well placed OT...no so much with a broken spring hepme hepme.

Thanks Dave, now if you can only keep the drivel inclined in the corral.

The SSBBS was a great place until they got that politics? section on there. It went down in quality pretty fast after that addition.

I frankly don't think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss politics except when it has a potential direct effect on our right to keep and bear arms. I said it before that IMO we're in for some tough times ahead in keeping our firearms rights. We can either all work together in this area or play osterich and hope the gun grabbers will go away.
Jim

You are truly a FOX...now I know that somebody actually reads my drivel...and, yes, First Amendment is correct.

But why does the First Amendment co-mingle the separation of church and state with the freedom of the press?

This is answered in my new book in the context of no book about hunting or shooting being published in the colonies until the British troops were leaving in 1783, and the reputed first book on fishing (ca. 1739) actually being a Cotton Mather-type religious sermon. The colonial Church and Secular censors allowed no printing of material discussing "diversions." The church leaders wanted to squelch recreation for fear that church-goers might enjoy having fun on the sabbath (still can't hunt on Sundays in Virginia). And the civil officials thought there was too much work to be done on Monday through Saturday to allow any screwing off. Thus the "Unholy Alliance" of the church and secular censors led to and was dealt with in a single First Amendment.

We can be thankful that the First Amendment effectively put an end to officious officials preemptively putting the kabosh on websites such as this...but now within the First-Amendment-Protected website itself another evil of quibbling censorship rears its ugly head.

So let's hear it: The information I posted above states that colonial officials of the church and state prohibited the publication of books and pamphlets about guns and hunting in general, which would include, to a certain extent, fowling pieces, some of which had two barrels.

Query: Does this qualify as a proper double-gun topic to slip past the censors? Have I ruffled feathers? Disturbed tender sensibilities?

Can I post such a thing on the "Sabbath?" (Sunday?)

What about Seventh Day Adventists and Jews who do their thing on Saturday?

If Dick Cheney had dusted his hunting pard with a SxS, could we, under the new PC rules discuss it here? But what if he used a splatter-matic?

So to avoid the sharp angle, lawyer that I am, I have crafted a publishing license after the fashion of the religious and secular licenses which were printed as front matter in the 1718 Portuguese book--The Perfect Gun--which I cited above:

Censor's License: After reading the proposed post to a new or existing thread of the doublegunshop.com Forum I/We can see nothing that might offend faith or morality nor is there anything against the laws or regulations, and by subscribing this permission to the proposed posting it shall be considered to have the blessing and approval of the powers that have the say-so as to that which is pure in thought and content, and is well calculated not to burn the eyes of those who crave the straight and narrow path to enlightenment. Subscribed this ___ day of ___, 2008 by the Webmaster himself, or his duly authorized Jive Jobber.

Henceforth I suggest that all proposed posts (1) be sent first to the censor to be screened for purity of content and threshold relevance; (2) Any necessary changes or deletions could be e-mailed to the potential poster; (3) Corrections made and re-submitted; (4) Final draft as approved and Censor's License attached (the censors License could have a cookie enabling posting). Simple! We will be protected. EDM

The problem was threads about guns sliding into posts of ignorance, myths and superstition, an amazing amalgam of politics, religion and jingoism, not to mention an abuse of members. There are no restraining injunctions here on expression or the arcane concerning our fraternity. Dave has discriminated prudently by providing for those who want to explore the esoteric with a special room. The uninitiated will stay where we are. We'll peek in from time to time to see how you're doing.

Well said.

KB: The irony (and humor) of all of this can be gleaned by going back and reading all the posts (yours included) under this thread and then compare them to the cryptic comments by the usual suspects on the "approved" threads supposedly relating to double guns. In the final analysis, very little of what is posted here goes beyond chit-chat and the expression of gut reactions.

My comment about censorship delaying the American publication of books about shotgunning in America until 1783, is the only thing even remotely related to the double-gun experience on these three or four pages of threads. Whether this "literature of our sport" pearl of wisdom is worthy in the context of your profound and incisive analysis, that could be read equally as a diatribe against non-Beanie-Baby content on the beaniebaby.org forum, will, no doubt, be the subject of votes pro and con.

As to "we the uninitiated," do you mean those who have nothing to say but say it anyway? Read any thread and see how many posts could stand alone and be understood as a comment about double guns. This goes with the territory; chit-chat is conversation; unpopular topics die for lack of interest and comment. Think how easy it would have been not to check up on this thread to see what's what...how easy it would be to not respond...let it die...Oh! but that last word....

Just wanted to give my support to Dave's decision!

Frankly, I'm shocked that so many here see a disconnect between Double Guns and politics as it relates to the Second Amendment. Who here really believes that we would even have these guns to discuss if it were not for this Constitutional freedom and the good fortune to mostly elect politicians who respect it, whether out of true conviction or political expediency for job security? With so many examples around the world of gun ownership rights being lost to Liberal and Progressive forces, I get rightly suspicious of those who poo-poo the same efforts here and say it can't or won't happen. I truly believe that many of those here, who mostly only seem to post or comment to voice disdain for support of the Second Amendment on a Doublegun forum, actually may have an anti gun agenda. Really Dave, look at most of the posts from many of these individuals from the time they joined. The only time they come out of the woodwork is to feign indignation that discussion of Anti-gun politicians or legislation will somehow degrade this fine and civil forum and cause Doublegun scholars to flee, never to return. BULLSHIT- BULLSHIT-BULLSHIT. Anyone that genteel and sensitive probably couldn't handle the recoil of a .22 birdshot shell in a 14 pound double. I don't believe it and anybody with half a brain ought to be skeptical. Dave, I hope you will reconsider. Most topics that are off topic or politically gun rights related are described as such in the header. Don't like it? Don't click on it. What could be simpler? Don't like me or what I say? Use the girlish ignore feature. We have the tools and the technology. There is really no need to push most of these so-called "off-topic" topics to some seldom seen back burner status. Since many of them seem to run into double digit numbers of pages of responses, the claim that they are driving folks away would be hysterical if not for its' ulterior motive. Dave, I do respect that this is your site, and I think it's great that you have run it in a very Democratic manner, polling us on many issues. I hope you will weigh carefully which topics should be relegated to the new sub-forum. Thank you, Keith

Quote:
" I truly believe that many of those here, who mostly only seem to post or comment to voice disdain for support of the Second Amendment on a Doublegun forum, actually may have an anti gun agenda. Really Dave, look at most of the posts from many of these individuals from the time they joined. The only time they come out of the woodwork is to feign indignation that discussion of Anti-gun politicians or legislation will somehow degrade this fine and civil forum and cause Doublegun scholars to flee, never to return."

Keith:
You've nailed it exactly on the head. The antis will use any form of subtrafuge in order to derail the ownership and use of firearms. Pushing any discussion of politics as it related to gun ownership off into a nondescript corner is a well known tactic. One of the primary goals in shutting down "special interest" ads during the last election was to muzzle the NRA so Obamas real gun agenda didn't become public knowledge and the antis were totally successful in this. If the owner of this forum falls for it there's not much any of the rest of us can do other than look at it as one more nail driven into the coffin containing our 2nd amendment rights.
And BTW: Keith It's only a very small but vocal minority with a totally different agenda that object to a discussion of politics as related to gun control here.
Jim

Hi!

I wonder me, if you can tell me about my Francotte musket, Carved by hand with a big head deer, it could be Root of walnut, but the arm only have the name A. Francotte Aliegi, but only that, not have year or any other mark on it, can you tell me some about this like price year etc? I think is not so expencive, so please help me

Best regards

Jim, I'm just glad that there are guys like you that realize what's going on here and elsewhere. There are some very interesting articles in the new American Rifleman detailing the concerted effort to keep gun control discussion under wraps this past election cycle and to portray Obama as pro Second Amendment. The NRA provides a link on their website to a page from the Obama website outlining their plans to infringe on gun-owners rights. That page has since been taken down, but can still be seen on the NRA site. It is sad that so many grown men think that for the first time in history, a leopard will change it's spots. Certainly, my job and my 401-K was impacted by the plunging economy and surging inflation. Still, I was not ready to sacrifice my guns for the promise that these scam artists would actually improve my economic future. Maybe I just have faith in myself, that I can always find another job if need be. But I fear that when we lose the Second Amendment, we, or our children, or our grandchildren will not enjoy those rights again. So when you or I or others try to point out here that the death by a thousand cuts is beginning...whether by restricting semi-autos or imposing lead ammo bans, the cockroaches will come out and cry to Dave that our discussion has nothing to do with doubles. They will call us trolls and say we are ruining this forum. Just remember that British gun restrictions made British doubles more affordable to us. When our guns become similarly demonized and regulated here, where will we sell ours? And what will they be worth? How much will you shoot your double when lead is banned and demand for bismuth drives the cost to $10.00 a shell? Supply and demand baby. Jim, I know I'm preaching to the choir here... I just hope Mr. Dave is listening in.

After reading four pages of free-for-all comments here, I support Mr. Weber's OT forum as a fine idea. Haven't noticed that anyone's comments here have been restricted ... everyone gets to have their say. In the meantime, I don't have to trip across someone else's OT rant which frequently interrupts the intent of the original topic on double guns. In this case, change is good.