doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vintage Guns

Here is one up for auction, purported to be a Black Diamond Pigeon Trap.

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=910483956

If you're interested in Winchester guns get Dennis Adler book to admire close up pics. The 'Pigeon Gun' on page 61 has four leaf clover engraved for luck just behind ejection port, simply precious.

I own a double barrel shotgun and a baggo Model 1897s and 97s. I've shot them for many years and I haven't caught the web of my hand in the breech block yet. I have to agree with Researcher and others, they aren't much for pumping compared to other pump guns. Had a nice Pigeon Gun, sold it to someone who won't sell it back to me. Oddly enough, he has a PhD. or two himself, as well as a baggo 97s.

That's not strange at all doctors of philosophy are drawn to the pump like Teddy is to honey. One Ole' Prof shot 981,000+ cartridges out of Remi 31 which he bought 2nd hand in 1933.
When it comes to the 1897 it's not that it was a truly great design, but the fact that it's competion (Burgess and Spencer) were truly horrendous. It will always the the "missing link" between double barrel or lever action and the great Model 12 repeater.

Well Jagermeister,
A Remington Model 31 is a fine old shotgun... And 981,000 is certainly a fair amount of shells alright...

What experience do you base you '97 statement on, "it's not that it was a truly great design"?
Certainly not personal experience right?

Perhaps some advice from Winchester who made the '97 might enlighten you possibly, you think?

Long after the retirement of your Burgess and Spencer and long before your birth I am sure..... Close to the time of my first duck taken with a '97 though.... Winchester made a statement you might put under your hat before your next post.....

Yep.... 981,000 is lots of shells. Wonder if that "not a truly great design" could even come close to that?

doubleornothin

I remain a staunch advocate of the Mod. 97 ( the earlier the better). They have the same appeal as the Colt Single Action Army revolver: an American Classic! Chopperlump

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=910483956

The few Black Deiamond Traps I've saw had straight grip stocks and 30" engraved ribbed barrels I think this is just a "Gunsmithed" Black Diamond Trap.

What the Winchester Model 12 and 97 did during World War One by scaring the pants off the German Army is more than enough... They earned their place in History!!! Not many sporting weapons can ever say that!!
No, I'm sorry, No other sporting weapon can say that!!!

Not to take anything away from Winchester 12s and 97s but a fair number of "sporting" shotguns have turned in good service, both for U.S. forces and for the armed forces of other countries, as well.

U.S. troops armed with "trench guns" did, indeed, get "the Hun's" attention during "The Great War". However, the Germans eventually learned how to respond to shotgun-armed troops that were insufficiently supported by rifle-armed troops by engaging them with rifles and machine guns at relatively long ranges. On the whole, though, the Germans developed a healthy respect for "barbaric" shotguns and they did not relish engaging troops that were so armed.

One thing that is not mentioned very much is how well Model 97s handle. With their original stock configurations they can be very "sweet". Don Zutz claimed that 97s encouraged hand alignment that is the closest to that found in side-by-side double barreled game guns. I have wondered whether such "ergonomics" may have been behind the straight-gripped stocks that are often found on high-grade Model 97 trap guns.

I would luv to have Model 97 "Trench Gun" like the one featured in the movie Windwalkers. My 1967 commercial or police "Trenchie" Ithaca is not as disirable, but what are my chances of picking up Winnie at local garage sale for grand total of $200?