doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 1885 condition, keep it original or go for broke?

In Sydney's HighWall thread I mentioned my 1885 s/n 383 in 32-20 or 32WCF.

I purchased this a few years back at a general auction, I paid $840 for it. It's in fairly good condition except for the barrel which has a bore like sewer pipe and some marks from a wrench someone once used to remove it (fortunately they're normally hidden under the forend).

It seems to have had a single set trigger at one time but is currently missing some trigger parts. The gun was disassembled to judge condition and still lies in parts.

It is a small shank gun and apparently the octagonal receiver top is unusual but other than that it has no special options. I know original High Walls are much valued but not sure about #383.

I first thought to have it redone as a larger chambered gun, get it case colored, nice wood, etc. But having thought it over and discussed it with some locals I am reticent to sacrifice the guns originality. It can be sleeved and kept as .32, original wood and patina, just get the trigger fixed.

I asked about rechambering this gun two years ago on the ASSRA board and the resulting thread had answers from Brent, JT and Glen. I'd like some more input from this board's members.

Here are some pics I have to give a general idea of condition, how much collector value does this have?

IMHO, you can either go all out on a resto (a la Doug Turnbull or some other equally talented and pricey smith) or just clean it up as is and reline the barrel. Anything in between would be unfair to a pretty special rifle. BTW, I think that hole on the tang that you indicate with a white arrow is supposed to be there on the very early rifles. That rifle does indeed look righteous to me.
As for the SST, if it letters, it would be worth your effort to return that to function using original parts if possible, since that is a VERY rare feature on that early a rifle.
Good find... enjoy it!

Froggie

I bought a gun very like yours from a garage sale on the Lac du Flambeau reservation in WI back in the early '70s. Mine was a plain sporting rifle with a 30" #3 oct. barrel, small shank in .32 WCF. Bore was completely "shot" (rounds would keyhole at 50' both cast and jacketed; at longer ranges they made a strange whirr somewhat like an Aussie bullroarer!). I had it relined and replaced the forend, which was shattered. I think any complete 1885 should be restored to as close as original SHOOTING condition as possible, given the state of your abilities and/or bank account. My .32 was in somewhat worse cosmetic shape than yours. If you don't want a Hi-wall .32-20, trust me, someone else will!

My opinion; YOUR rifle, of course.

If you spend the money for a total restoration, go for it. Barring that, reline the barrel to 32-20, replace any broken parts of the SST and leave as is.

The problem with too many projects....

I just dug up some more info I got on the last go round and a fellow named Bert Hartman has access to the Winchester records and looked it up for me. The records say it has a PLAIN trigger but I remember JT telling me something about the trigger having a slot in it meant it was supposed to be a SST. Maybe he'll see this and clarify.

The records could be wrong about the SST, the gun is listed as having a #3 barrel and it has a smaller diameter barrel, apparently the 32.20 wasn't available on a #3.

Froggie, you were in on the original thread, thanks.

JT, if you see this here are the pics of the trigger and hammer, SST or plain?

Thanks, Rob

Since it doesn't letter in this configuration I wouldn't worry about much on this gun. However, regardless of how it letters, it's a pretty decent looking 1885 and I personally would leave it as it is, and just reline it to .32-20 again.
I would return the set trigger system if you can find or make parts, but I wouldn't worry if they weren't factory sinc ethey're internal and not lettered too.
Looks like it had some sort of tang sight at one time judging from that extra long tang screw too. Might not hurt to put a correct Lyman or Marbles on it if you can find one.

I would line it back to .32 WCF, find a tang sight, and get the SST fixed. It is an interesting rifle as is, but I do not think you'd recover your costs if you went for a proper restoration. That generally requires a rifle with a number of special features.

Years ago I owned an octagon top, thick side, high wall with a serial number that I remember as being approximately 200. The barrel was marked "Browning Bros., Ogdon, U.T." I wondered if that might have been part of the payment to Browning for the patent rights.

Terry:

As I understand it, the Browning brothers were agents for Winchester and sold the 1885 from their shop. These
Browning retailed rifles were marked as you describe. Howsomever, it was a long time ago and who really knows? It would be nice if there had been better records kept of such things, but who would have thought anyone would be interested 120 years later? After all, they were just a shop selling rifles...

Glenn

The small shank receivers were usually supplied only with the smaller barrels of #1 and #2 sizes since the large shank barrels have threads larger than the #1 & #2 barrel breech ODs. Actually I've seen some Win factory #2 barrels with large threads and others with small threads, go figure! The later small shank receivers often had a small groove milled into the top like most flat-side low wall receivers, to allow a low line of sight with the necessarily lower front sight on the smaller-dia barrels. The few early 3-digit receivers that I've seen all had the octagon top whether thick side or thin side, and they all had breech blocks with the transverse firing pin retainer pin instead of the later vertical firing pin retainer screw. Your rifle obviously was at one time fitted with an SST, judging by the adjustment screw hole in the trigger and the slot for the fly in the hammer. All the early receivers had a third hole visible in the top of the tang for the exposed end of the early longer sear spring screw so yours is proper. The later receivers had this hole shorter and blind, with the later & shorter screw's end hidden in the blind hole.

IMO your tang has been replaced or else the Cody factory records are in error. The #3 barrel description doesn't match the small receiver shank or the present barrel configuration and the SST setup isn't mentioned although it's apparently old and contemporary with the rest of the rifle. Now, I'd be the first to admit that Winchester didn't always follow their own customary practices in assembling these rifles, but there are simply too many discrepancies between the factory records and the present configuration for me to believe that the info matches the rifle.

If that rifle belonged to me, I'd reline the barrel and restore the SST operation and just enjoy it. Possibly fit an additional barrel in a more usable caliber for plinking or competition but retain the original barrel for nostalgia and/or eventual restoration if a future owner desires. Either that or trade the rifle for a more usable item such as a large-shank high wall action or rifle. In any case I personally wouldn't spend a lot of money for a high-dollar 'restoration' to a supposedly original configuration that can't be verified by a Cody letter.

It looks like a nice rifle, you shouldn't have any trouble with whichever route you decide to take. Let me know if you need help with the SST or the reline, I have a few parts and a little knowledge.
Good luck, Joe

I'm assuming that the serial number you used to get the letter came off the lower tang. Which suggests to me that tang is original but the hammer is not. On the other hand, there is no fly in any picture, so perhaps it was just a replacement hammer or originally fitted with a slotted hammer but w/o the fly for the set trigger.

I really like to octagon top and thin side combination. A .32-20 for a smokeless rifle would be pretty cool in my opinion - if it has to be smokeless, other wise I would consider a .25-20 or a 28-30 or .32-40. The short cartridges like the .25 and the .32-20 are a PITA with a highwall action.

Brent