doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SHOTGUN BALANCE DYNAMICS

To the honorable members of this board
At the age of 62 I have developed a rabid pasion for doubles. Thus I ask this question: If a double swings better than a non-double, why the insurgence of shorter bbls on doubles?
It would seem they would swing much smoother with longer bbls.
After all the bbls between the hands decreases the advantage of having more weight out front providing less chance of stopping or slowing your swing.
By my reasoning (I never claimed to be intelligent), it seems contradictery that doubles are sporting shorter bbls, and non doubles, partculary non-double, target guns, (with the added length of the receiver between the hands) seem to be heading the route of the "long toms".
Hoping you guys can clear my muddled thinking.
Mike B.

FWIW, I was talking with a Browning rep in September and I asked him about their smallbore (specifically 28 gauge in this case) O/U's with long barrels. He told me that they are moving back toward shorter barrels because that's the way the market seems to be going.

Mike, longer barrels help one follow through on deliberate, swinging shots, e.g. ducks or doves. For quicker, usually going-away "snap" shots, as are more common on ruffed grouse and quail, shorter barrels can allow a quicker poke, due to less inertia to get them moving (rocketman?). I've found 28" to be a good compromise, although I have doubles with 26" to 30" barrels. Target guns are a different story, which someone else will have to address since I don't shoot clays anymore (exacerbates my flinch too much). I've also found that I prefer my light (5-6lb) 28ga guns to have a little bit heavier/longer barrels and my heavier (7-8lb) 12 ga guns to have a bit lighter barrels, moving the balance somewhat rearward. It's mostly up to personal preference.
Joe

Trends come and go, with shotgun barrels and fly rods. 100120 years ago, 30" was quite the standard for doubles(meaning SxS). Then Churchill pushed the 25" double and that fad was in for a while. 40-50 years ago, 26" was the standard for skeet shooting, whether O/Us or repeaters. Then along came the sporting clay crowd and longer barrels came back into vogue. 30" was very popular and some of the strong young hotshots liked 32" and even 34" barrels, usually on their O/Us. I'm comfortable on my older doubles with 30" but like Joe said above, 28" suits me just fine. The longer barrels have an advantage of helping follow-through BUT you have to be able to get them moving, to start with. There is a point of diminishing returns where a gun can be too long and/or too heavy for an old geezer like me to get moving. The gun I shoot best, on an average is my Beretta 390 Sporting Clays Gold/Silver, with 28 barrels. It works fine for me on skeet, clays and even trap. I bought it with a 30" barrel but soon grew tired of the extra length. I was able to trade it for a 28" barrel and have been happier ever since. The sporting clays shooters have brought us some good things, along with a honey wagon load of expensive nonsense, IMO.

"If a double swings better than a non-double, ---"
Mike B., the problem is in using subjectively judgemental adjactives where cold, hard facts are needed. The handling dynamics of a gun can be summed up in four numbers: weight, balance (teeter-totter point = center of gravity), unmounted swing effort (moment of inertia at balance point), and mounted swing effort (MOI at the butt). Once you develop a feel for the foregoing four numbers, radius of gyration is a handy number to indicate the compactness of a gun's weight. Like stock fit dimensions (LOPs, drops, casts, pitch, and various bends) and feel characteristics (size, texture, and shape of gripping areas), what is "good" for one shooter is not necessarily "good" for another.

The British tended to use the 12 gauge as standard and adjusted power by changing shell length. Americans adjusted power by changing gauge. Brit guns tended to be SXS doubles of upland (game guns) shooting power and associated weight (12 gauge @ 2 1/2" with 1 - 1 1/8 oz shot and weighing 6 to 7 pounds). They also made pigeon weight guns for 2 3/4" loads and around 7 1/2# and wildfowlers for 3" loads and around 8 -9#. American guns tended to be 12 gauge repeaters of duck power for 2 3/4" loads and weighing in around 7 3/4#. The one-gun man was expected to be hoss enough to tote his duck gun in the uplands. A multiple gun owner would often buy a smaller gauge gun for the uplands. American SXS doubles were made to much the same formula as the later repeaters. Neither of the formulas is "better," rather, they are a reflection of the times and shooters the guns were made for.

JB, you got that exactly right!!

Personally, I like the weight of the gun in my hands not in front of them. As example; my L.C. Smith FW 28" and my Ithaca NID 28". I like the feel of the Ithaca better due to the lighter barrels. The Smith feels just a bit slow. I also have a Remington 11-87 that came with a 26" tube and because I thought I would use it for geese I purchased a 30" tube in standard weight. This barrel makes recoil comfortable, but with it I think the gun shoulders like a pole for vaulting. I bought a 28" light contour that for me is perfect. Weight in my hands and the comb firm against my cheek and I have the control I need to concentrate on the target - no matter which way it zigs.

I've never seen a shotgun I hated more for weight forward than an 1100 with 30" barrel. Put a 26" skeet barrel on it and you have something a small to average man can hold up long enuf to pull the trigger. On the other hand, my 34" Flues SBT is so similar in "dynamics" to double barrel target guns of my experience that I don't notice a difference. In fact, I've shot singles-only skeet with it and was 20+ with the mod choked barrel. To some degree, the moron on one end (read novice) does require more on the other to encourage swing followthru. I haven't mastered all of Rocket's parameters of objective measurement but am a strong believer in the refinement of half-weight radius--tapered on one end and hollowed out on the other to put at least 50% of gunweight between the hands.

jack

mike,

I follow the S x S market pretty close, but was unaware that there is a resurgent interest in shorter barrels. While unaware of it, I hope with all that is within me that it is true. I am not one who is or has been swayed by the current interests in barrel lengths, for lack of a better term. I have always liked longer barrels on all my shotguns (and rifles for that matter). For at least 30 years I have bought, used, and been happy with barrels of at least 30" length on shotguns, single barrel or doubles, and have almost zero interest in anything any shorter. I am not an over muscular fellow (6'2", 165#), but I cannot for the life of me understand the arguments that 26" or 28" barrels are quicker, or noticably lighter that 30" ones. We're talking mere ounces here. And a 30" barreled gun with well struck barrels will handle quicker and more responsively than a shorter barreled one which has heavier walled barrels anyway.

As I have mentioned before, my upland gun of choice is my Beretta 687 SP II Sporting, which has 30" barrels. I have no need of a gun that handles any quicker than it does, and I have to slow myself down to keep from shooting some birds too quick, and too close with it. It is a puzzle to me, too. But, as I said in my first paragraph, I sincerely hope that the swing in consumer sentiment is back toward short barrels, because I've got a nice 26" barreled BSS I would like to trade for a 30" one, and maybe the other long guns will drop, too.

I'll bet a pretty penny that no one of us will live long enough to see the top sporting clay shooters ever go to short barreled guns.