doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting Damascus SxS's

Until I read Sherman Bell’s excellent articles on Damascus barrel testing, I had avoided shooting any Damascus or Twist barreled shotguns. Whether due to ignorance, or just excessive caution, I was loath to take the chance.

Local gunsmith Buck Hamlin regularly shoots Damascus barreled guns, often with factory loads, and assured me that he never encountered a problem. So, I had Buck restore a 12 gauge Remington 1900 with Damascus “Star & Horseshoe” pattern barrels, for me. The 26” barrels measure IC & IC, and may have been shortened by a previous owner. As with all of Buck’s work, the restored gun is a beauty, especially the barrels.

Still being somewhat cautious, and not wanting to stress a 100 year old SxS, I loaded low pressure shotshells using Remington STS hulls, 22.5 gr. of IMR 7625 powder, RXP12 wads, , REM 209 primers, and 1 ounce of #7-1/2 Lawrence magnum shot. According to the IMR loading tables, this loading generates about 4,200 PSI – roughly half the pressure of most factory ammo, and 1,100 FPS.

I was a bit concerned that this lighter load might not be powerful enough. I started out shooting skeet (with 7-1/2’s) and can’t see any difference in clay breakage. When I’m on target, the clay birds break the same as with factory shells. Next, I tried Sporting Clays with similar positive results.

This past weekend I had the chance to use the old Remington and the light loads on live quail at a dog training session. Granted these were released birds (not wild), but the old Remington dropped them cleanly. Once the Missouri quail season opens next month, I plan use this old Remington SxS on wild birds.

Recently, I’ve also been playing with an 1890’s Baker 10 gauge SxS with ornate stub twist barrels. Rather than fuss with reloading 10 gauge shells, I bought a set of steel Gauge-Mate adapters that allow the use of 12 gauge shells in the 10 gauge chambers. I’ve been shooting the same #7625 low-pressure reloads. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know how much the pressure drops due to shooting 12 gauge shells in the 10 gauge bore, but it seems to work O.K. This Baker has 30 F&F barrels that measure .060” of choke. Nevertheless, I shot a 17/25 on my first round of skeet with it, even with the tight chokes. And the misses were “operator errors” rather than any fault of the old Baker.

Anyhow, I learned a few things worth sharing:

1. - Quality old American Damascus and Twist barreled shotguns are safe to shoot with low pressure reloads.
2. - 1,100 f.p.s. reloads are adequate for both clay birds and quail.
3. - IMR #7625 powder works well with these “SxS Oldies.”

Jerry Goldstein
St. Louis, MO

Jerry: this is Remington "Etoile 3 B.P." on an 1894 CE courtesy of Charles A. Herzog Sr. (also from eastern MO) Is this the pattern on your gun?



This is Casey's 1900 KD with a very interesting transition (and weld line) from 'Oxford 2 S.J.' Two Iron Crolle at the breech to a 'Boston 2 S.J.', on both tubes. Most KDs had 'Oxford 2 S.J.'

The barrel pattern on the top one is gorgeous, in fact, it could almost pass for metal engraving of typical Thomas Horsley piece.

Remington called their Horse-shoe pattern 'Boston N' and I don't have an example. Please post an ultra close up pic of your barrels Jerry.

This is a Two Iron Horse-shoe pattern

Jerry, welcome to the world of damascus guns! You're spot on with your reloads. I do basically the same except hold the velocities up a little higher--about 1175 fps while keeping the pressures down. I'm not worried about blowing the tubes as much as I'm concerned about undue stress on these old guns actions. After all, when you're over 100 years old you deserve a little gentler diet.

Jerry,

I've been shooting damascus barrels for many years and during that time I had only one I was not sure of. I sent it to Buck Hamlin and after he said it was fine to shot I have not looked back. He has also browned a few damascus barrels for me, a fine workman.

The 7625 only has one problem. You can get puff loads if the ammo gets extremely cold...like leaving it out in the car on a freezing night. Otherwise, that is the load I always use. More loads are on imrpowder.com

I've experienced something similar to that with my light reloads more than once using Hogdon Clays in very cold weather too. The report sounds a bit hollow, but the load is still effective.

Only "interesting transition" I see is shoddy barrel building. The apprentice that hammered those should have stayed in the Persian rug business.

I had 7625 become completely ineffective at duck swamp temps (20's) in a 1¼oz load @ about 7K psi. It propelled the shot hard enough to hit the duck (Mallard) but not enough to kill it. This using #5 lead in the pre-ban days. After my son finished it off with a 20ga using 1oz of 6's we checked it out & those 5's had hardly broken through the skin. Both my gun & shells had stayed in the house & were transported in the cab of pick-up with heater on, those first two shots were fired within 30 mins which was sufficient time to kill their performance. Some shells from the same identical batch had been used previously on some early season squirells in tall hickories & proved powerful & effective, but at higher temps. I forevermore swore off of 7625 for cold weather use, unless in full power loads for which it was designed, so have no idea if any change has occured to it over the years or not. "IF" you insist on using so light a load of 7625 for use where the temps may drop below freezing I would at least change to a hotter primer as the Fed 209A, I was using the mild CCI on my loads (To Keep pressure down).