doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need Help In Identifying A German Shotgun

Thanks Jani & Raimey!

The Initials inside the oval are "H.S." Interesting about the rampant Bohemian Lion, I couldn't make out what it was. Thanks.
I guess though, we still don't know the maker? Is there another gun similar to this one out there? What's out there nowadays that is new and comparable to this gun?

German Shotgun:

H.S. - possibly Hermann Schlegelmilch of Zella-Mehlis who was a gun barrel drawer. Your longarm experienced preliminary/provisional proof in Germany due to the fact that it appears to be void of the 1st and 2nd marks signifying it experiencing proof in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Proof Conference of 1914 allowed countries to adopt rules to acknowledge each other's proofmarks although some countries like Franceand Italy didn't incorporate the rules into law until the early to mid 1920s. Your double has the rampant Bohemian Lion which is the mark of the 3 proof firing. The "NP" w/ sub. "W" is the mark of semi-smokeless or Nitro.

Maker, no idea just yet. It appears the maker or firearms merchant around Weipert purchased the components in the white from Suhl and/or Zella-Mehlis.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dear Raimey,

Fascinating! Know of any photos of Hermann Schlegelmilch??
Still would love to learn the maker of this gun!

Thanks again,
Anthony

It seems I've answered my own question and have found a photo of Hermann Schlegelmilch. See it here: http://germanshotgun.blogspot.com/

German Shotgun:

Now there was also a Hermann Schlegelmilch of Suhl who was a gun stocker prior to WWII and might have been the same person or a son or father. The Schlegelmilch folk were very competent weapons makers. Casper was a specialist gun barrel maker while Franz was a barrel blank maker possilby all funded by Ernst Wilhelm Schlegelmilch who possibly purchased components from Sauer or had Sauer to make longarms and roll stamp his name on them. There were a couple more Schlegelmilch folk with Reinhard Schlegelmilch being a stocker. Any relationship between "H.S." and Hermann Schlegelmilch is pure conjecture on my part but we have the initals on the guns and the gunsmith names in the directories. If you handed me the longarm and gave me a very finite amount to time to make the call: with the Krupp steel on the tubes and the "H.S." I would say it was a joint venture of Sauer & Schlegelmilch and a firearms merchant/gunsmith in Bohemia. As a side note, a monogram of "H.S." found on 6.35mm pistols probably stands for Haenel-Schmeisser(Carl Gotlieb Haenel & Hugo Schmeisser). So as several have posted, we may never know the exact maker due to the passage of time and destruction of info. It was a cottage industry with many doing many functions. If we had a list of contractors and subs we might have a start. I don't know that I've seen a no-name Bohemian longarm as most have the name on the rib or somewhere, but yours could well be an example. Is there a Lion on the watertable near the "NP" sub "w"? Nice coordination of info on your blog.

On 10th glance I think I see the Sauer "Caveman" mark under the "2" of the "16.2" under the left tube. Then again I see the Sauer "Caveman" mark in my sleep. Can you tell what the mark is?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dear Raimey,

Excellent information! Thank you so much! As I am a newbie in this field, you'll have to be more specific when asking me questions: "Is there a Lion on the watertable near the "NP" sub "w"?" Yes, I believe it is.
"On 10th glance I think I see the Sauer "Caveman" mark under the "2" of the "16.2" under the left tube. Then again I see the Sauer "Caveman" mark in my sleep. Can you tell what the mark is?"
Which photo are you referring to for the caveman? Can you send me a photo of the caveman mark?

Thanks,
Anthony
filmcity@nycap.rr.com

Anthony:

Have a gander at the 1st pic on the 3rd row at Cabela's site which lists a Sauer 20 bore hammergun with typical Sauer marks at: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11653 . The Sauer trademark from 1882 is the "Caveman", possibly Hercules(but I've been reprimanded for this reference) at say the top of the barrel flats. It could be found on the tubes, the flats or the watertable and on all. I'll email you one if I have a electronic copy. Note that there are some letters in an "oval" on the underside of the right tube. Sometimes the rib hides the marks.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr:

Cabela's is mighty proud of that Sauer. At that price I suspect they will own it a long, long time.

The action is fit for doppelbuchse 'express'. Obviously "Kaiser roll und Sohn" poured everything into the "box" except intercepting safety feature. The gun has distinct but pleasent taste about it. A very strong flavour if you will.

No Caveman it seems, but I did shoot these other photos taking a closer look at the mystery marks. It looks like the letter "S" with a crown that has a cross on top. Or, if you look at a side view, it looks like a grazing animal.

What do you see?