doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com To open the chokes or not, that is the question...

Chuck, as far as being well informed goes, had he read:
-Gough Thomas's gun book: shotgun lore for the sportsman
-Shotguns and cartridges
-Gough Thomas's second gun book: more shotgun lore
-Shotguns & Cartridges for Game and Clays
all by Gough Thomas Garwood, he'd have the chokes open already.

And shooting enjoyment, to me at least, is directly related to hitting clays and game,
so I do count scores and bags. Open chokes definitely help in that department.

JC

I agree with small bore regarding the need for little choke, my absolute favorite is Cylinder and 1/2. But, I also agree with Chuck H in the fact that it is a 120 year old gun. Why rush to do anything? Shoot her, enjoy it like it is and if you just can't stand it you can always change it later.

Tim

We are caretakers of these old guns. I say try and learn to shoot it "as is".

I agree with jOe. We spend a lot of time on this forum talking about chokes. I dont pay any attention to what my guns are choked, I just learn to shoot them, as individuals. I mentioned in a prior, that my favorite clays gun, a Lefever "H" had chokes which were unknown to me until Joe Wood measured them for me at Raton. My newest favorite, an "FE16" is choked amazingly tight. So I just wait longer to shoot. That probably wouldnt work for some folks. Someone used these wonderful old guns for a long time, happily and I am sure with success. Why change them....

I guess my point is really that if he's not hitting very well with it now, openning the chokes won't make a huge difference. Something else may be limiting his scores/bag.

You can be. I'm not.

When I die, they won't put a pristine 100 year old gun in the coffin with me so passersby can say "look how well preserved they both are." Both the body and the gun will be thoroughly used up.

Rocketman:
You mentioned reloading with a Giulandi X-post wad. Will that wad work with most reloaders, or will the shot tube crush the X-post? Or, do you place them in by hand?
I'm interested in building spreader loads for a tightly choked pigeon gun that I will not open the chokes on.

A few more thoughts about opening up chokes to suit yourself: These old guns were made when shells were not as eficient as they are today. No shot protectors, the fiber and cardboard wads did not seal as well and patterns were not as good(tight)as they are now. If anyone has owned an older Browning Superposed, you will know they usually pattern at least one choke designation tighter than they are marked.
Most of these old guns are not marked to indicate what the original chokes were anyway. Opening them up to a more useful boring will not affect the resale price at all, IMO. By all means they should be described honestly when you sell them, of course. I am not the caretaker of my old guns. I am the owner of them and I will damn well make them to suit my wants.
That said, I shoot clay targets with a couple of Lefevers, one of which I made .015" and .025". The other I have at .010" and .033". Both are great fun to shoot sporting clays, skeet and trap with and are still quite useful for hunting. Point being you don't have to make them skeet and skeet to have fun shooting skeet with them.

Anyone that thinks modern ammo makes vintage guns shoot better patterns hasn't done much testing with ammo loaded the old way.

As far as value unless I'm looking for a gun to shoot skeet or quail...I want choke and the idea that less choke is going to make you into a better shooter is in my opinion just a fallacy.

I was always too lazy to do extensive pattern testing. As a life member of the NRA for 40 years & a member still longer, back when the Rifleman was still a shooters magazine, upon testing a shotgun they always showed pattern tests. They showed typical 40yd test with 30" % as well as % in an inner 20" circle. A typical pattern will show greater density in that inner circle, surrounded by a less dense circle, further surrounded by scattered & eratic fliers. A factor that became obvious to me over the years was how often the difference between say a 70% & a 50% pattern was entirely within that inner circle with the number of shot within the outer ring being virtually identical. Obviously the "Extra" shot in the inner portion had to be brought in from outside the normal 30"s. Anything hit outside this normal pattern will be problematic as to a clean kill with the more open chokes having only a very slight advantage in this regard. Open chokes are simply not a substitute for proper pointing. What thet do offer is a more uniform spread over their entire patern with less "Mince Meat" on a centered hit at normal ranges. A choke of .010"-.015" constriction is entirely adequate with appropriate loads to reach to 40yds. To go much beyond requires that concentrated center, but then one must consider if they have the ability to "Always" center the shot as that center will of necessity be surrounded by a ring of considerable size almost guaranteed to only cripple. "I Don't" so the two guns I have used with good success over a number of yrs are one having .010"-.012" in both bbls & another with .012"-.024". I do have a nice H grade Lefever which is tighter (Full) in both bbls, but I have not yet decided to modify them & probably won't, just adjust the loads.