doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help on determining grade on a W.C. Scott?

Hello, all.

I recently purchased a W.C. Scott hammer gun in June. It was made in 1890, has no cracks in any of the wood, but does have some pitting in both barrels, though it still locks up TIGHT and right in the center. I mainly bought it because...well I wanted an English double and I happened to see this one. here are some pictures.






<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/thegregtastic/?action=view&current=DSCI0027.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/thegregtastic/DSCI0027.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>






I hope that isn't too many pictures. Anywho, I am curious as to the grade of the gun, because I read in the book "Vintage Guns" that W.C. Scott often put oak leaves on their premier grade guns, but I have seen much more beautiful Scott's than mine....


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think it's "The Victoria". I'm going off of a Scott catalog reprint from 1891.

It's on the lower end of the hammer guns Scott was offering at the time, but still a very nice gun.

Even though it was a lower-grade Scott, I'm sure it was very expensive in its day. It probably cost more than a most upper grade American stuff of the same period.

A Premier hammergun has a lot more engraving on it. Here are a couple:

http://www.sitemason.com/files/gxb8Qg/VMS112a%20wcscott10.jpg

http://www.juliaauctions.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=35486&sale=252


OWD

TheGreg,
What an awful gun, that is possibly the worst hammer gun I have ever seen.You really do need therapy.
As a measure of my benevolence, if you could arrange for it to be delivered to me at The Vintagers next week I will take it back to the Birmingham proof house and admonish them for passing such a disgraceful piece of metalwork.
I am extremely sorry that you have had such a traumatic period of ownership and will do my utmost to salve your injurious experience.
Please now go and lay down in a darkened room with a wet flannel on your brow, I hope you make a swift recovery.
I want that gun, I want that gun, I want that gun,I want that gun, I want I want I want

Greg and I have talked about this gun before. What's the hole in the hammer for?

I would say it's more of a mid grade Scott most have some really high quality damascus on them...I'm thinking The Victorian will have the Gold Star on the rib. It's been rumored the Oak leaves were for the American Market.
I had one like it I got rid of it because I didn't like the function of the low hammers....kind of trickey to let down. I can't recall if the one I had would open at full cock or not.

Oh, hi, Mike, I was unaware you were a member here, though looking at your auctions I am not a bit suprised.

As for the hole in the hammer. It looks to me that it possibly used to have taller hammers on it but someone cut them down and soldered on these petite hammers.

I had Kevin from Kevins Sporting Goods look at it (www.kevinsguns.com), and he said that it was unique because it was built on such a small frame...

Though the most intriguing thing I have found on the gun is on the barrel flats.





one is marked 12 gauge and one 13??

The 12 & 13 would have been the actual bore size at proof. A 13 would fall between .710" & .719", while a 12 would go .729" to .740". It is also noted the bbl marked 12 is also marked "Choke" while the one marked 13 isn't. "Just as a THought", perhaps this was done intentionaly, using a smaller bored bbl on the one for a good fit with a round ball for auxillary use & then the choked bbl made with a larger bore having a choke size about the same as the cyl bbl & thus the bbl would not be ruined if the ball load was put in the wrong bbl. Someone just could have ordered it this way.

yes, the barrel marked choke (the 12 barrel) is substantially choked. internal diameter of the barrel at the muzzle is .700 inches, whereas the other barrel is .727 inches...

With those dimensions sounds like my theory just blew out the window. With a .727" bore though, sounds as if that bbl has had a little honing. That size put's it well up into the 13/1 range. As I recall the word choke, the chamber marking, & the sub gauge sizes were all introduced in 1887. Thus after this date a bbl marked 13 should have fallen between .710" & .719", unless of course the stamper just goofed that day, a situation not unheard of.
Incidently have you checked position of the top lever with bbls detached. Many British & continental guns were seemingly not made with compensating bolts & the lever just always returns to center. On these guns the bolts were apparently simply made with a minimum clearance necessary for the bolt to slide home `& do not seem to wear much from there. I guess the increased friction of a "Wear compensating" bolt tends to induce that wear to compensate for.

That's an unusual and distinctive engraving pattern - a profusion of fine scroll on some spots, oak leaves in others, bare metal else where. The hammers are very distinctive too; some more digging may reveal that they were a characteristic of the "Victoria" model.
RG