doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Welding Up Hook on Barrels

Oscar- the "Little older men with files and carbon lamps" may not be a myth. When my late Grandfather did his apprenticeship as a machinist in 1913- you were given a rough slab HRS-the "bark" on it- a vise (maybe a Parker and Snow series) a try-square and your selection of files (Simmons usually) all the way from mill bastard to finish grade- and you had to make a perfect CUBE- as judged with the try-square- to pass. I have many of his hand tools in my basement "Den" and a solid workbench I made in 8th. Grade for a woodshop class project! GrandDad's best friend was a master carpenter- Anthony Sussex who taught me- and he told me that "You're not a finish carpenter until you can: sharpen your own chisels and plane irons, and your own saws with proper tooth set-and mortise and hang a 3 hinge door- I am a retired welder who does carpentry for my gals and for various groups to aid seniors- and the Holy Trinity of "Plumb, Level and Square" applies to tack welding girders and beams with Lincoln LH-70 (AWS 7018 Low Hydrogen code rod) as well as setting studs on plates on exact 16" centers with a air driven framing nailer- I never go on any carpentry job without: sharp chisels, a plane, a cross-cut handsaw and a combination square- all tools from over 100 years ago. The std. 16" x 24" framing square with the 1 and 1/2" wide tongue and the 2" wide blade was first developed in pre-Civil war days by a Vermont blacksmith- the Vice-Grips we all use were developed in late 1920's by a Danish blacksmith from Nebraska-good hand tools (US made-not the cheap Chink crap that Big Box marts peddle) transcend all time, just as a fine Parker or Elsie made in 1898 is a vintage treasure to someone. Hope you find a TIG welding shop nearby, best process I know for what you need- the other gent is correct- MIG will give you an excess of "build-up" to be machined and filed and burnished off later- RWTF

Oscar, The advice given here is all useful, it will assist you in doing the repair.But at the end of the day it is your skill that will produce the final product.Let us not get into a spat with cherrybomb, he perhaps was well meaning.Yes you can do it his way, but how many us have a CNC or even a Bridgport at home versus the ones who have a file and silicon carbide paper on the bench? Each to his own.I have a friend who is a master gunmaker in Birmingham who produces superb work. He uses a stick welder and scares me to death, but that is how he does it.He also bends stocks with an acetylene torch and hot air gun.But he DOES NOT colour harden with a torch (last sentence included so I don't have my leg pulled at The Vintagers).
'Faint heart never won fair lady' 'Act in haste, repent at leisure' two sayings that need to be heeded, do some test pieces first, learn the skills and it will be a piece of cake to do the repair.Good luck.

And so I am taken to task for cautions on going at it with a file. Mea culpa, ..., mea maxima culpa. Please post here pix of the work. Be sure to spot with dykem on one pix, showing nice even wear pattern across entire hook surface. I will suspense note to ask for update on BBS about 1 month hence. CB

My gunsmith uses a term called "spray welding" to describe the process of applying metal to the hook. He says that the resulting surface has a sintered appearance. Does anyone know the exact process he is describing? I know it isn't as desirable as putting in an oversized pin and refitting, but I hear it is less expensive.

Allan

Skills are acquired by doing. Hard reality, but true. What also should be remembered is that the guns I'm working on were manufactured long before computers and CNC software, and usually hand fitted by human hands. The flintlocks and percussion rifles I've built from components were constructed with files, saws and the like -- just like the originals were two hundred years ago.

As to Cherrybomb, you are right. No need for a spat here. Thankfully, Dave has had the foresight to enable one to ignore a bothersome poster here on the board. I have invoked this feature and am deeply appreciative to Dave. Thanks, Dave. Maybe we can all benefit here by remembering that sometimes it is not what we say, but how we say it.

For all of the others who have generously offered their help. Thank you. I hope I will be able to reciprocate in the future. I very much appreciate the advice and encouragement.

Oscar,
I'd like to hear how you do the fitting after you've finished. Pics would be great.

Oscar,

I'd love to see some pics of your process also. I have a hook that needs repair on a Fox AE. I can weld it up but I am not sure what the best approach is after that. I'll eventually figure it out and get it done. There is great satisfaction in doing this stuff for yourself.

Bill G.

Vol423,

"Spray Welding" is a generic term that refers to at least two different processes that use metal powder to build up a worn suface. Basically, the powder is melted into individual droplets in an electric arc or oxy-acetylene flame and propelled at high velocity onto the surface where is bonds to the surface and to itself. It is commonly used in industrial repair shops to build up worn surfaces such as bearing fits on shafts, etc. After the metal is applied,, the repair is machined to the desired size. It is fast and does not heat the repaired area as much as welding. Properly done, the bond to the base material is quite good although not as good as a conventional weld.

OB

OB, I agree with you that the procedure (spray welding) is "commonly used" but some, no most, treat it as black magic. What is the truth and who uses it? In my opinion, sawing off the loop (correct term is "hook", my error) and dovetailing a new loop (again, correct term is "hook") surface is overkill but many talented gunsmiths insist on this method. What do they do when this fix wears out, do it again? I think the shim is the easiest and the most unobtrusive to the originality of the gun. The spray weld may be just as unobtrusive and about as easy. What do we think?

The new plasma spray weld machines are what Oscar referred to. He had someone that use that to build up a small amount of metal on the hook and then file fitted it. I believe Kirk Merrington has also used the plasma metal spray to apply the additional metal.

Either way it all boils down to file fitting with a smoke lamp.

In talking with Steve Bertram, he described the welding buildup as only at the back of the hook since that is where the wear is. That makes it much much easier than welding up the whole hook which would cause you to loose the location of the hook in the verticle axis.