doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shade tree case color restoration

A note of caution/interest: The marlin video is good, but many of us believe that it is not an accurate representation of how Marlin actually color cased their firearms. Jim (on the marlin board) tried to duplicate their process exactly as they showed it in the film, and after failure and experimentation, he also came to this conclusion. Its possible that the color case section was meant to leave Marlins competitors wondering how the hell they get such good colors. Gaddy's articles pretty much explain the entire process, in quite good detail, but its all about finding what works for you.

Channing,

Thanks for the heads up. I am more interested in other aspects of the film. Without getting into great deal, I feel that documentary film making was in it's infancy in the 1920's. In this I have a point of reference. I also have come to believe that company sponsored films of that era never revealed the full process.

I remember when Brownell's introduced their case color hardening kit. Oscar spent a great deal of time looking it over. I remember he pronounced it flawed. Stating something to the effect that the schedule was wrong.

Pete

Pete,

I agree very much with you that most of the films at that time never revealed any real factory secrets. How I wish they produced the show "How its made" back then. I agree very much with what Oscar said about Brownells "schedule" for case hardening. Give yourself a kick one time and call one of the reps at Brownells to see how much they know about color case hardening, and ask how many actions they have run From experience, you can recolor an action at the Brownells prescribed 1450F, but you run a much higher risk of warpage, and I mean much higher!

So for those of you with more of a clue than I, if you were presented with an obviously torched gun at the right price:

1) Would you feel comfortable buying it if the price/gun justified a total annealing and re-case hardening? Any pitfalls in this that would be different from re-doing any other gun?

2) Assuming the seller would let you, could you easily test if the colors were the "low-heat/chemical" method with a bit of blue-remover? i.e. rub a q-tip with blue remover on colors--if they rub off it's blue; if they stay it's torched, or something to this effect?

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,

To answer your 1st question. I would not touch a torch job. Simply no way to tell if or how much damage was done.

About your second question. I have been playing with this method. I have learned that you can not apply several "chemicals" at once. They have to be applied in stages. The most difficult color to achieve is the bright blue that true case color can have. At least the cold blues I have tried so far are unable to achieve to that bright blue.

Pete

To what temp do you recommend heating? If one goes much below this 1450°F they will drop out of the critical temperature range of the steel & hardening will not take place. This would of course reduce the possibility of warpage, but would also leave the action in a near annealed state. I personally would not want to give up that hard skin on one of my guns, even for perfect colors. When steel is quenched "Suddenly" from a point above it's critical temp, there will "Always" be a risk of warpage. So far I have not been willing to take that risk, so my guns remain un-re-colored.

I think the "right price" for a torched gun would be whatever it's worth to you as a wall hanger.

I would be interested in knowing for certain what this guy's chemical is, and just how much heat he applies.

To get the heat colors with a torch, you are getting into pretty high heats, and you don't need any chemicals, just a clean surface.

On the other hand, a guy I know has done some pretty reasonable looking faux color case, using IIRC clove oil, and light heat, just enough to heat up the oil on the surface.

I'll have to consult and see what his process is.

I've used the hot part/cold blue solution on some model engine parts that were to look case hardened, and it won't come out looking anything like that shotgun.

Cheers
Trev

I've been using the Brownells kit for the last couple years now at the University where I work. I have my students do bone and color case hardening on various parts of the steam engines that they build. We do use a modified crucible that reduces the exposure of air during the quench and the temperature we shoot for is about 1450. I have found over the course of hundreds of these parts that you do get better colors when you fall below the 1400 range, but much below that you won't get any appreciable hardening. Parts will warp during the quench unless they are blocked and I think this is critical to success when dealing with any firearm parts. If anyone wants to see the process I have a video that I shot of the process last semester and can posts samples of the parts that we do. It's not difficult to get good colors, but you do have to have a safe place to do this in.

Alex,

By all means, please do post the pictures. Have you uploaded the video to youtube

Pete