doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How many of you shoot twist guns regularly?

You'll like this one Tim
When I ordered some Penicillin for the next mission trip, I could have ordered generic Penicillin, brand name Pen VK, Penicilina in Guatemala, Penicilline in France, or Пенициллин in Russia - but it's still Penicillin.
OR I could have ordered from some guy in Nigeria with a great deal on Peniclume made in Turkministan which turns out to be something different entirely! (Am I making anybody nervous about their last 'Viagre' order? )
Anyway- just trying to get us to speak the same language when we share how much fun we're having

Drew, I'm picking up what you're putting down. And you are right, it does matter, my point is there is a vast body out there that shoots all these beautiful old guns. It would be a crime not to. Make sure to have the barrels checked and use the appropiate shells.

I note in reading the two descriptions of making Stub Twist, they do not read the same. Greener does not say the stubs were "Melted" (puddled). They were according to him brought to a welding heat where they bonded together. I am thinking just perhaps the later writer may have made somewhat of a mistake in his description, I do not believe even the stub twist bbls were puddled, but the seperate pieces were simply welded. With modern welding technics the metal is normally melted at the join, but not so with forge welding. It was brought to a very high heat, but slightly below the melting point & when parts touched they would actually stick together & join at point of contact. The hammering was to insure full contact & help force out slag etc.

Miller: I think Pete has a better picture of 'the bloom'



I also have a poor copy of a picture of the "Stub's Pie", the nail stubs bound together into a little 'cake', held together by an iron band, prior to ? puddling, rolling, and forge welding. Unfortunately, it doesn't reproduce adequately to post.

Guys, I hate to but in here, but it seems that no one here is aware of the articles in "The Double Gun Journal" by Sherman Bell named "Finding Out For Myself", subtitled, "The Slow Powder Myth". In this article, the author documents how he tested 30 different twist and Damascus barrels with modern Remington, High Pressure, Proof loads, producing 18,000 psi. of pressure, purposely trying to see if he could get any of them to fail. Now these tests were not done with any degree of selection with regards to condition, and in fact included some really pitted and worn barrels that would have been condemned to only "wall hangers", by any gunsmith worth his salt. Unbelievably, not one barrel failed, and after rechecking tolerances, all but one set of barrels were unchanged, and all would have easily passed the recertification proof test. The one set that failed, was badly rusted and the head-space increased by only .001", which was probably due to just compressing some of the rust.

What do ya'll think about those apples?

binko

I believe Miller is correct. That picture shows horse nails being added to the rod. I often see these demonstration barrels for sale in European auctions.

I think we run into language problems. Some times with English sources, some times because there is no adequate translation from the French. It is unfortunate that we do not have Spanish, German, Russian and Italian primary sources as well. Some times because the language changed over the 100+ years of the damascus era.

I have been informed that a salesman's example case was sold. I was told it had 200 examples. That one may not see the light of day for many years....

Tim is correct.

I shoot my guns, damascus and laminate tubes. Recently picked up a Pieper Diana that is on it's way to Dewey V. to have the extra fine crolle barrels redone. When it is finished, I will shoot this 1881 gun as well.

Pete

Wow, this is great stuff, thanks all. The reason for my post is that I am getting a 16b H grade Lefever with twist barrels this week, an unmolested, 6.5lb., 28" short chambered gun that will need a re-brown and metal refinish at some point. I'll post pics when I get it. My last Lefever 16 had steel barrels, so this will be my first go-to gun with twist barrels. I do belong to the 16ga. group and society, and can't wait to start roll crimping some low pressure 2.5" loads. I already have tons of Federal 1 oz. game loads I would love to be able to use, but I might trade them off or get a cheap pump gun or single shot to shoot them in.

Binko, this started with "Am I alone?" and has proceeded to the arcana of construction. The argument could have turned just as easily to ultimate strength and the myth of damascus fatality and perhaps will yet. Stay tuned.

jack

Mr. Binko - on the contrary, we are very much aware of Sherman Bell and his articles. For those of us who risk life, limb, and fingers to shoot these old guns he is our Hero. I see it's your first post, welcome.

I have an Ithica Lewis with Damascus barrels made in '05 (last century that is) and a S.S. Northcott with English proofs on a twist barrel about 1890's vintage. Both are 12 ga. I have shot skeet with them for years with PB smokeless loaded in the sub 6k range with 1 oz. of shot.

I have also shot a lot of black powder, both 2f and 3f with equal volumes of shot and powder.

The smokeless is a whole lot easier but I just can not give up the smoke and stink of bp.

Good luck
RPr