doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ethical question

The dealer is chasing them, but readily admits that he knows nothing in that field, and has to consult various people when such guns come in. I've left something else with him to see if he'll buy it off me, and he'll make a few calls and see what it's worth; In effect I'll be trading a top name, best grade gun in middling condition for a second tier name in a lower grade, but mint condition and impeccable, documentable, local provenance (which satisfies my perverse preference for damascus barrels and BP proof too). I think that's fair to all.

I don't consider myself to be personally uniquely qualified and the only "worthy custodian" of these guns, but in SE Australia there were once a lot of very fine British guns with impeccable provenance - some of the very best. Some remain, but many have disappeared overseas in times when the GBP or USD was stronger. Much of our firearms heritage really has disappeared. In Australia many of we enthusiasts and collectors do consider ourselves custodians and defenders of our history and heritage - especially given the legislative context which has seen known historically important and valuable arms defaced and destroyed in the blink of an eye.
Some of us actually like to know the histories of the guns we own, and are more attracted to (and they're materially worth more as) guns with a story than those without; we also see too many magnificent guns - the kind an afficionado would gladly offer body parts for - which are utterly unappreciated (I know of at least two Purdeys which are used and cared for the way one might use an H&R). It's hard not to be a bit of a crusader then.
RG

Cadet, if the dealer is chasing them, but knows little, and you still want to preserve the relationship that gives you gratification, then work through him. It doesn't matter how much he knows. I love the provenance of guns as much as the next guy, but these guns are not expensive , great guns and their provenance is not kingly or knightly, or whatever. Most every gun has a history, whether a simple gun or a best gun. These are simple guns and their history is of value to you, but not to many others. If they are worth more than your relationship with your "friend", then charge forward.

Righteous post, Daryl.
We both, as do many others, have some guns that we take out and perhaps go so far as to pucker up and kiss. What we get is a cold feel of steel on our lips. Maybe Damascus, but just as cold !!
Then, we meet a dear friend that we have not seen in a time. We shake, and for me, reach out for a great hug !! I have long since forgotten that men are not supposed to show that we can love another man as a friend. Hugs are a good thing even for a solid conservative as I.
In my seventy years I have not had an object show that I was important.
My friends have,will and if all is well, shall.
Best,
John

I don't understand why there is a question. If you learned about the 3 guns from a dealer who "looks after" you, trying to cut him out is clearly unethical.

I would try to work with the dealer to by the two guns you want. If you go around him and buy them directly you know that in the end he will find out. It is not like you can just show up with the guns in question and have him not add one and one to get two. Then your dealer will never again show you respect and trust that you have built up. He may refuse to deal with you ever again and most likely tell others what caused you falling out. Perhaps you can get him to hold the guns on a lay away or time payment agreement. Or maybe he can sell something for you to make it happen. Burn a bridge and you can never go back.

KY John,
That's what I'm doing - selling something else (through the dealer) to raise the capital to buy them (again, through the dealer). I'd prefer not to have to pay the dealer's profit margin though, and that's where the ethical question comes up - I know how to avoid the middle man on these.
RG

Once again John- well said indeed- my Grandfather taught me at an early age the long lasting value of true friendships-he'd say to me "Son, money is fine, but remember, when you are laid out and the Priest is there at your wake, looking around and thinking what to say on your behalf- he'll be looking at your friends and family and not a stack of dollar bills or a pile of stock certificates"- I think I see the possible moral dilema here- I like to think I know a little about pre-1964 Winchesters-at a gun show a dealer (no one I knew) had several M12 28 skeet guns. I am strictly a 12 gauge man- and with the dealer's permission handled and dis-assembled one. A well dressed man watched me- and then asked if I could tell him if the M12 I was holding was an Original 28 gauge Skeet gun-with a $6500 asking price- As I had "No Dog In That Fight" I declined, re-assembled the gun,and left-after reading this thread, I think that even if I knew the dealer- I would have not rendered an opinion-- PS best way to tell (among several) is to have a gunsmith remove the buttstock- original gauge would be stamped on the rear of the receiver boss- above the threaded bolt shank extension- as some VHE Parkers have become BHE -etc- some 20 M12's became 28 gauge- Caveat Empetor!!

The dealer's profit margin is what allows him to stay in business so he can "look after" you - and tell you about interesting guns coming onto the market. Is it ethical to deny him a fair part of his living while taking advantage of a gun buy he told you about?

More to the point: are you really asking an ethical question, or just fishing for an excuse to do your 'friend' out of a sale?

Jack's got a point.

But, hey - Victoria's population is somewhere over 5 million souls.
There's a chance he won't find out that it was you who got those guns.

Ethics discussed on this board are likely of no value whatsoever to the owner of that gunshop.

This might not be the best moral compass for you -- perhaps you should just ask the shopowner.


--Tinker

Victoria's population is in the several millions, but the numbers of enthusiasts of vintage British double guns numbers at best in the low several hundreds - there's a really good chance he would find out who got them if he missed out.

Yes Jack, I probably was trying to convince myself it would be ok to bypass the dealer and buy "wholesale" - and struggling!

As it is, if I sell one there (likely), he'll make a margin on that, and if I buy one or two of the three on offer he'll get his margin on those too (provided he actually gets their sales in the first place...).
RG