doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ethical question

My local dealer is a fair, reasonable and honest man who acts with discretion and will not break a confidence. He does, however, know nothing about the fairly complex, arcane, and specialised world of vintage English guns: finer details like wall thickness and bore measurements, as well as the fact that provenance can sometimes be determined from consulting, with a serial number, the holders of the records, escape him. He tends to wildly mis-price such guns in this part of the market. I do, never the less, have a good working relationship with him, and he looks after me.

The scenario is this:
3 guns
1: a beat up, mismatched 12b Boswell hammer gun;
2: a near mint, cased 12b Boswell BLNE, false sideplated, damascus barrelled live pigeon gun whose case bears the name of a prominent local family;
3: a near mint, cased, 12b Henry Atkin BLNE game gun
have turned up at this dealer, and apparently the seller is taking them to a couple in the district to gain the best price.
AG&L got back to me on the S/N of gun 3, and it looks like I've been able to figure out a name and contact details for the seller (the surname with gun 2 turns out to be the maiden name of gun 3's original owner's wife too)
Last two would be OQ 3-4ish, CC 2-3ish.
I'd love to own guns 2 and 3, and could readily find a buyer for 1; I think it would be a shame for the guns to lose their history and leave the district. I can't afford to right now though, and suspect my dealer will be seduced by the names and overprice them.
Would it be poor form for me to contact the seller to try to cut some sort of deal to hold them until I can offer a fair price to avoid the dealer getting them?
Cheers,
RG

has any sort of agreement, formal or informal or otherwise, already been cut by the seller and the dealer?

if not, if you just know they'll be coming on the market and you want to get to them before the dealer does, then no, there's nothing unethical about that. that's just being fast(er).

if yes, if the dealer and seller have already been in contact and have some sort of understanding, well that's a different matter altogether.

your question implies the dealer does not actually physically "have" them yet. but if an arrangement has been negotiated between the 2 of them, then it's as good as if he did. probably not unethical strictly speaking but not the kind of thing that makes friends.

roger

I basically agree with fnb25. If there is no agreement between the seller and the dealer, then you are using your detective skills and knowledge to identify the seller. In this case an inquiry to the seller would not be out of order.

On the other hand, you state the dealer has been totally honest and fair with you. If there is an agreement in place, I suggest you give him the benefit of your knowledge and experience with these type guns, which he apparently does not have. Advise him of your interest along with your expertise and perhaps a deal will result.

There are lots of true sideplated boxlock guns, but false sideplates - WOW - I've never seen a boxlock with false sideplates! Better grab that baby while you can!

jack maloney:
You know what the man meant.

As to the ethics of the matter. The guys have stated it well.

We all have seen guns that we thought were such a good deal that we spent that last available dollar only to run up on another that screams to be taken home. Better to make a sounder friendship with that dealer than to risk losing a good relationship.

I long ago decided that i would trade all the good guns that I own for one good friend that was there when I needed him. Even if I kept quiet concerning my need.:}
Best,
John

I am unclear on one issue. Did you track down the potential seller through your relationship with the dealer?
If so, I think it is unethical to try to go around him. If not, no problem. My .02. Jake

If you saw them at the dealers shop make him the same offer you would make the owners.If it dosen't work out for you give the person the info you found for free so the history is not lost. If the dealer the owner and you were in a parking lot somewhere then its first come first serve.

I have not tracked the seller down via the dealer; it is entirely my own detective work.

As far as I know, no agreement has been yet struck; I believe it's being discreetly offered around.

By false sideplates I meant a boxlock with sideplates on it to make it appear (falsely) to be a sidelock.
RG

I say go for it then but if you don't get the guns pass the history on so it is not lost.

If I'm reading your post correctly, you first saw these guns at the dealer's shop, and then used your "detective skills" to track down the owner/seller. Seems to me that you owe the dealer at least a heads-up that you would like to buy the guns, even if he does not get the consignment (assuming that it is a consignment sale). Let the dealer call the seller and tell him/her that he has an actual buyer waiting with cash for these guns, for an immediate sale. Reach a fair arrangement with the dealer and everybody wins. If your dealer can't get the consignment, all bets are off. If you can't muster enough cash to do the deal now, let the dealer buy gun 1, or arrange some sort of payment plan with him that keeps him whole on the carrying costs of the inventory.