doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shotgun Shell Identification Question

I have picked up one each of two different shells for a collection and am not familiar with either one. If anyone can shed some light on them, I would appreciate it.

1. paper hull, high brass, reads on the brass: "Western SuperX No. 8 Industrial"

2. Aluminum, reads "WCC 55, 410 M35"

I know they are 8 gauge and 410 gauge, but have never seen one like either of these. George

The first fires a solid, cylindrical, lead slug and is most commonly used in an 8 ga gun used to clean cement-making kilns. Deposits on the walls of the kiln (which is a long, thin cylinder) are literally shot off the kiln inner walls.

Someone else will probably answer number two; all I know is that it was made by W-W in 1955, for the military.

Fred has nailed the first one. I have one of these empty hulls sitting next to me as I type this.

The slug is 3oz and flat on both ends. Plastic Industrial 8's seem to be more common now, but the one I have here was picked up a customer site (Portland Cement Manufacturer) earlier this week with about 50 others. I also got my hands on about 1000 plastic 8ga hulls.

The one I have in hand is marked "Winchester Super X CE8S Magnum" & "Industrial LEAD"

There should be a slightly thicker part to the brass just ahead of the rim. This is to keep these HIGH PRESSURE shells from being chambered in old hunting shotguns.

They are used exactly as Fred describes to shoot "clinker" cement off the walls of the kiln. The guns are not anything like a "normal" shotgun. I have seen them mounted on a tripod and hanging from a cable. They are not shot from the shoulder as a 3oz slug at high velocity would knock you a** over teakettle. I would estimate the weight of one of these guns on a tripod as over 100lbs. There is a new Remington (still in the crate) at my customer site that we set up once to see how it worked. Definately more of an industrial tool than a bird gun.

The guns are not sold, but are "loaned" to the end user when they agree to use a companies ammunition. This customer uses Winchester ammo which is why the Remington gun sits unused. Eventually I suspect it will be returned to Remington.

As to the .410, I have no information for you.

More thoughts on the 8ga hulls that popped into my head.

I have picked up a few of these shells that were duds and cut them apart to see how they are loaded. The slug has a plastic sleeve around it then two felt wads under and finally a plastic cup wad over the powder. The powder looks like Win 748 or BLC2. Much more "rifle" appearing then "shotgun/pistol" powder, but I don't know that for sure.

I have picked up some of these hulls that are marked "Buckshot", but I have never found one of these as a dud to cut apart.

The .410 is probably a shell contained in jet pilots survival rifle-shotgun O/U. I think they contained some .410s and I think, .22 hornet cartridges. Probably from the Korean "war". JL

The 410 is a Western Cartridge Company Lot #55 410. The M35 is the military designation for a 410, Aluminum Case #6 shot. These were intended for use in USAF survival guns. The rounds are sometimes seen packed in a tin can with a key, much like a can of Spam. The value of a single round is under $5.00.

Pete

Were these 410 shells for the Savage Model 24 22lr over 410 O/U? I saw one of these which was ex US Air Force, had a plastic stock and forend. I heard they were also issued in 22 Hornet over 410 but have never seen one.
Mike

I believe the 55 would have been for 1955 & not a lot number. All the military shells I am familar with have the date as part of the head-stamp.

Miller,

You are correct. I forgot we were talking about the headstamp.

Pete

Thanks to everyone for their help. Very helpful and interesting. George