doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Opinions on a thin-barrelled H&H

View is a visual inspection to ensure the barrels are not too pitted, dented, rivveled, cracked, holed, or otherwise flawed. Also, to ensure the gun is on the face and that teh action is not cracked or otherwise defective. If you can make a barrel out of steel so strong that it can withstand proof at 2 thou thick, the proof house will proof it. Their job is only to see if it can withstand the proof loads without failing.

Small Bore,

taking into account what you have said, as regards to wall thickness is concerned, what would be your criteria to send a gun for re-proof? And, with what wall thickness you would de deterred from buying a shotgun, ceteris paribus?

Against my better judgement I'll re-enter this thread. The first big issue is the alledged measurement. In the radial plane we are utilizing measurement of 1 / 1000th of an inch increments. along the bore we discuss about 12"??? pressure drops significantly after @ 9"" and the difference between 12 and 16 inches could be significant. Until we have data that states xx.yy" from the breech at the 7 o clock position an area of 0.xxx
thickness was found we are speculating. Heres my speculation.
If you use pressure curve based on V. Drake's paper to the Journal of The Forensic Science Society of 1962 as the basis for proof pressure, factoring in mean vs max, lead crussher vs piezo and the current 30% overload a cylinder of .730 ID vs .762 OD would require a yield strength of 80,000 psi material. Modern steel can easily exceed this so it would be feasible for this gun
to pass proof. It is not beyond the bounds of probabilty that the proof marks are legitimate. If the wall thickness is greater than .016: or further out than 12" the ability to pas proof improves and vice versa.
EJ all things being equal .040" at 9" is sound, below that I'd get written consent from the owner before submitting to proof.

I thought the English proof houses had minimums on wall thicknesses...according to you I guess I was wrong ?

Dig do you think "fake re-proof marked" guns are slipping out of England ?

I've heard numorous rumors about it happening and with some research we should be able to find out if this is one of them.

Joe, reference your question on minimum thickness, from "Modern Sporting Guns" by Christopher Austyn (formerly head of the Sporting Gun Department at Christie's in London):

"There is no legal minimum thickness for a shotgun barrel, although the British Gun Trade Association RECOMMEND 20 thousandths of an inch as a general minimum." (Emphasis the author's.)

I'd certainly heed the recommendations of experts such as Hugh when it comes to minimums at various distances from the breech. However, I will add this bit of food for thought: When you get within a few inches of the muzzle, does it make sense to concern ourselves overly much with wall thickness . . . when we don't concern ourselves with actual HOLES in the barrels (porting)?

Hugh Lomas,

thanks very much. I regret not visiting your place when staying at my brother´s house in Madison last September. How far is Elkhart Lake from Madison?

EJ - I would only send a gun for re-proof if it was legally required because it was no longer in proof.

Homelseejoe - Now you have it right, there is no legal minimum wall thickness.

Also, I have not seen or heard of fake proof marks appearing here(UK)in recent times.

My own opinion for what it is worth:
I would not sell a gun to anyone with a barrel minimum thickness of less thanabout 15 thou (it would have to be way down the barrel).This is just for my peace of mind.

The thing is you need to tell the buyer what he is buying. Sell a chap a Holland with a spot at 16 thou in one barrel in a place it won't be a problem and sell it for the right price, he will be happy if fully aware of what the score is.

The same gun with 28 thou in both barrels would cost him twice the cash. Sell him the thin barrelled gun for top money and let him think that he has an A1 gun? I would not do it but there is nothing illegal in so doing - the buyer should either know what he is doing or take expert third party advice before paying up.

I have seen guns pass proof with spots down to SEVEN thou towards the muzzles. I have also seen them blow spectacularly!

Small Bore,

thanks very much for sharing your criterion on this matter.

Why waste time chasing down fabricated, utterly baseless "rumors"?