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Forums10
Topics39,494
Posts562,063
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Most Online9,918
Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100 |
Who mfg. .410 shells in non-tox (steel or other)?
We're only responsible for the effort, not the outcome.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
Call around to local sporting goods stores there are bound to be few dusty ole' green boxes of Winne Bismuth on some shelves. These were sloooow movers, you know. 
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100 |
Thanks, PJ.
My friend has a full choke single shot for his 6-year old son and wants to take him on dove hunting here in Western MN......perhaps too young, yes, I know. Does bismuth have the hardness of steel shot. I believe he should open the choke to at least modified to improve pattern effectiveness for the boy, if not also for the hardness/safety factor.
John
We're only responsible for the effort, not the outcome.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 367
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 367 |
If the young lad has been brought up on firearm responsibility and safety. then I certainly don't think 6 is too young. My 3 boys have all shot deer, ducks and doves before any of them had started school. Old Pop's didn't even have to shoot a deer last season (doe, button buck and 8 pointer) were shot by my 3 boys in early season with a crossbow. Twins are 5 and oldest boy is 8. Freezer was full so it allowed me to concentrate on pheasents and grouse the rest of the season. Still got a deer and a half in the freezer.
Definetly open the choke up on that .410. Reduced felt recoil and better pattern with steel at the very least.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,475 Likes: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,475 Likes: 54 |
Are you not allowed to use lead shot for doves in Western MN?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,720 Likes: 1357 |
You are not allowed to use lead shot for doves PERIOD in MN. When the season was first proposed, some of us opposed it, since there really isn't a huntable population of doves in MN, and, while the "city people" who seem to have much to say in legislative matters involving the DNR here might not be able to identify a ruffed grouse or woodcock, they sure as hell knew what mourning doves look like. They are still bitching about a season on their "songbirds".
The steel shot only rule came out of no-where, and was something hunters who fought for the season on doves didn't and couldn't see coming.
Remember this date-Sept. 1, 2011. That will be the first season MN goes non-toxic only, statewide. Those who wish to rally against it, are too late.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100 |
Are you not allowed to use lead shot for doves in Western MN? Yes, we are not allowed to use or possess lead shot on "managed and/or posted dove hunting fields," for the purpose of taking Mourning Doves. The whole of Chippewa, Swift, Big Stone and Lac Qui Parle Counties are considered as "managed and/or posted dove hunting fields" per MN 2007 regulations. John
We're only responsible for the effort, not the outcome.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,475 Likes: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,475 Likes: 54 |
Yes, we are not allowed to use or possess lead shot on "managed and/or posted dove hunting fields," for the purpose of taking Mourning Doves. The whole of Chippewa, Swift, Big Stone and Lac Qui Parle Counties are considered as "managed and/or posted dove hunting fields" per MN 2007 regulations. ...and I thought Kalifornia is bad...
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 100 |
Does Bismuth have similar hardness to steel shot?
John
We're only responsible for the effort, not the outcome.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 130
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 130 |
Does Bismuth have similar hardness to steel shot?
John No. It's soft. Suitable for "fine" guns and older guns that can't handle steel. Two problems with Bismuth - one is that the early stuff tended to shatter into dust from the stress of firing. That was cured with later production, but you can still expect some shattering of the brittle pellets. The other is that it is lighter than lead, so penetration becoems an issue at any distance. That might not be an issue with close-up doves; on the other hand a .410 needs all the help it can get. I don't use a .410 for any non-tox shooting - 20 gauge is the minimum. I much prefer tungsten matrix in "fine" guns - it patterns and kills pretty much like lead. Bismuth and TM are both awfully expensive to burn shooting at doves, and I expect that small bore non-tox ammo adds a premium on top of that.
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