doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Remington M-1900 SxS Questions

I have several questions about the codes stamped on the barrel of my Remington 12 gauge SxS Model 1900:

1. What do the letters "LKEDY" signify? I thought I once read that "K" was the model number(?) and that "E" meant ejectors(?).

2. Serial number is 3902XX. Does this identify the year of manufacture?

3. I once read that the chokes were specified by a number code representing the number of pellets in a 30" circle at 30 yards. Is this true? Mine has "53" under the right barrel, and "41" under the left barrel. If the previous sentence is correct, what size shot was used to arrive at these numbers? My measurements suggest chokes are SKEET and IMPROVED CYLINDER.
(Since this gun was made before skeet was invented, perhaps there is a better designation - OPEN?)

4. Barrels are Damascus; I think it is called "star & horseshoe" pattern. Is that proper nomenclature for Remington?

5. Apart from the serial number, the number 3932 is stamped into the water table, barrel flat, and forend metal. Anyone know what this represents?

Thanks for sharing your wisdom....

Jerry Goldstein
St. Louis, MO

jerry6stl:


Yes, K is for the model 1900. E is for ejectors. D would be Damascus steel probably Oxford, which one? without a pic. 3902xx - 1910 w/ over 16k manufactured. "53" would be 353(could it be 83?) and "41" would be 341. In Semmer's book, 341 equates to 67%.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Remington Model 1900s are a simplified, cheaper, version of the Model 1894, built on the same patents -- No. 528,507 and No. 528,508 both granted Oct. 30, 1894. The Model 1900s were all K-Grades, with E added to the designation if the gun had ejectors and D if it had Damascus barrels -- K-, KE-, KD-, or KED-Grades. The K- and KE-Grades had Remington Steel barrels. The Model 1900s had a snap-on/off forearm and their serial numbers were in the 300,000 range, often preceeded with a stock letter Q.

You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book.

Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.

People can speculate about those letters and hash marks on the bottom of the tubes of Remington doubles until they are blue in the face, but the truth is we really don't know. The Damascus tubes normally found on Model 1900s is the pattern that Remington called Oxford 2.S.J. However, on a late gun like yours from 1910 when Remington was finishing up and shipping all their break-action guns, I can imagine them using up any tubes that were on hand. In February 1910 Remington struck a deal with Norvell-Shapleigh Hardware Company in StLouis for all their break-action guns in inventory and in process, and Remington would then concentrate all their shotgun production on their Browning-designed autoloader and their Pedersen-designed pump.

Many of the later Model 1900s have a four digit number in addition to the serial number, as you mention. I've heard it called an assembly number, but I have no idea what that really means.

Remington "Oxford 2 S.J." 'Two Stripe' damascus was the standard barrel on Model 1900 KD- and KED- Grades and on the Model 1894 A-and AE- Grades, but as Dave said, please post an ultra close up pic Jerry, or e-mail one by jpg attachment to revdoc2@cox.net

My Remington 1900's Damascus barrel pattern is simiar to the photo above. A friend called this pattern "star and horseshoe" style.

Do the "pattern numbers" of 353 and 341 correspond to the chokes being .005" and .010", or have they likely been opened? From your example, I'm guessing they are more open?

On the side of the action, the "CO." in Remington Arms Co. is reversed, or upside down - both sides. I guess someone at the factory made a stamping die error.

The gun has been completely restored , rebrowned, case colored, and the checkering refreshed. American walnut stock with a rounded pistol grip. I'll try to get close-up photos to post, but am "technology challenged."

Thanks for the help.

Jerry Goldstein
St. Louis, MO

Remington's Washington N 3. B.P. is a "Stars & Stripes" or "American Flag Bunting" pattern (this is an Ithaca Lewis Grade 4)



Their Star pattern is called "Etoile 3. B.P."



Check out the 'Colt and Remington Damascus' album
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17067005

Jerry,
Judging by your numbers your gun was probably choked .032 in both barrels originally which would be full and full. The barrels should be black and white not brown and white. The barrels came from the factory looking like the picture posted by Revdocdrew. As posted by researcher nobody seems to know what the Y stands for and my 1900 has it too. I have no idea what the L stands for. How much does it weigh?

I've posted this information before, but if someone with a lot of Remingtons, like Bobby, add these to what he has and what is in Charles' book, maybe a pattern will emerge.

1906 12-gauge KE-Grade has /// K E Y

1909 16-gauge KE-Grade has X K E A1

1896 12-gauge AE-Grade has P A

1906 12-gauge FE Trap has /// F E G 13

1894 12-gauge BE-Grade has B J and a poorly struck E or an F

1907 CEO-Grade 12-gauge has /// M

1905 DEO-Grade 16-gauge has X O

In some cases you can get the grade as in the KE and FE. My BE-Grade has Chain Damascus barrels, and on the Remington Damascus salesman sample the Chain Damascus is labeled CHAIN J. So, B for the grade, J for the barrel material and E for ejectors?!? Hmmm....

Just from looking at my little list there seems to be a difference in the markings on the early guns, 1894 and 1896 and those from the later years 1905 to 1909. Anyone willing to share marks on 1897 to 1904 guns. I also noted that in my later guns both 16-gauges have an X and the 12-gauges all have ///. I see Semmer shows the barrels of 12-gauge KE-Grade 361550 and it has the same /// K E Y as my slightly earlier 12-Gauge KE-Grade.

1910 12-Gauge K grade has ///KDY

I will check my 1894 tomorrow. It was made 1903

I'll do the same with my 1894 AE, but first someone will have to tell me if my sn 126xxx gun falls into to your time frame.