doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Recoil: physics vs. gun fit

Is recoil in light 12 and 16 bore guns without recoil pads generally inevitable, or is it mitigated by the particulars of stock design? In other words, is it possible that with two different 6.5 lb 12ga. guns (or two different 6 lb 16ga. guns), one might kick like the dickens and the other not? I understand the general physics of recoil, but not with regards to the mysteries of stock design and its effects on felt recoil. Fat combs, thin combs, etc.

I can't tell you too much about firing 12s & 16s without recoil pads. I'm 6'3", 200 LBs and formerly thin. Over the last number of years, since being infected with the SxS disease, I've had my gunsmith install recoil pads and sometimes spacers to increase LOP on about a dozen of my guns.
However, I can tell you about pitch. Even with Pachmayr Decelerator pads installed, in several cases the pitch was all wrong and I FELT IT IMMEDIATELY. I have a somewhat "bent forward from the waist" style of shooting and now know FOR ME I prefer very little pitch on my guns.

1. Recoil in any gun is inevitable.
2. You'll "feel" less of it with a good recoil pad.
3. Ian's experience with the wrong pitch is another very real factor in "felt recoil". The most important function of pitch is to provide maximum contact between the butt and your shoulder, not to make the gun shoot high or low, as is often blathered about. Back in "ancient" times, before American shooters learned to cheek the combs, as we do now, it probably had some effect on the high/low impact. Not now.
BTW, bending forward at the waist is not the best shooting form. Bending forward is tiring and usually suggests that your body will try to swing at the waist. The body should swing from the ankles up.

Good points from Jim.

All things being otherwise equal, a light gun will kick more than a heavy gun with the same load fired at the same velocity.

A short gun will bruise you because it is more likely not to be in snug contact with your shoulder when you fire - giving a hammer blow rather than a push.

I never use recoil pads unless they happen already to be on a gun. I suffer no bruising with guns that fit me and are correctly mounted - even after a long day in the pigeon hide in shirt-sleeves.

I notice with clients that when testing guns, poor fit leads to bruising - it is most common with short stocks but a 'too long' stock tends to make people mount on the upper arm and get bruised there.

Poor comb fit can lead to bruising of the cheek-bone and a too fat grip and too much reach to the front trigger leads to bruised fingers from recoil.

All these issues are better fixed by a properly fitted gun than by recil pads alone.

All that said, a cartridge loaded to a degree that exceeds the weight of your gun will make life uncomfortable.

The mention of comb shape suggests that recoil can create a little mouse on your cheek as well as a sore shoulder pocket. A sharply radiused or thin comb certainly doesn't do a good job of spreading the shock of an upward recoil component if you have your head (and cheek pocket) inclined over the top to get the correct backsight alignment. A lot of cast (3/8-7/16") gives a lateral recoil component INTO the cheek of the shooter depending whether it's "on" or "off" and the handedness of the shooter. Oddly, I have, and have seen a couple of additional, French shotguns whose stocks are shaped such as to provide cast at face but "return" or recurve to place the butt in fore/act alignment with the bores or at least with the rib centerline. I believe this "design" mitigates the lateral component of recoil. A little or a lot of positive pitch may be fine but lots of negative pitch is not so great IMO. Very short toes allow the butt to sheer upward in the pocket. Add downward barrel whip in a sxs and this combination feels to me like getting uppercut with a baseball bat. I don't think there's anyone who thinks that huge amounts of drop at heel don't produce an upward recoil component. Of course you can't cheek them tight the way you would a high and parallel stock or you'd have your eye behind the top lever so maybe the pain of heavy loads is mitigated to a degree by the upright head position. Even with light 1 oz. loads, I think there's a threshold of perceivable shock and discomfort associated with a gunweight approaching six lbs. When guns and shotcharge are similar wgt., there certainly have to be differences in stock geometry which produce recoil discomfort. I've never had much shoulder soreness with hard butts and 1 1/8 oz in 12 ga or 1 oz in 16. I would guess that a bad case of magnumitus changes the picture at the shoulder considerably.

jack