doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com For appearance's sake...

Don Moody! He would unleash hell on you if you disparaged the name Winchester, but he was a great guy in person and once gave me a shot of the best tequila I've ever tasted (probably made in some dusty one-horse town in Texas).

I never met Don, but, was on really good terms with him. I’ll take your word on the booze (not sure I’ve ever had a shot of tequila) but, he did tell me how to improve the bore on a rather sad Winchester model 1912 that I inherited from an uncle that was a dairy farmer, and, clearly, felt that his guns fell into the same category as hammers, tractors and trailers-it was as rusty as anything else he owned. First year 20 gauge, left in the dairy barn, between two studs for most of 60 years.

Don told me to shoot the hell out of it, the nickel steel barrel would be much improved by doing just that. So, I did. Still have the gun, polished it and reblued it (Glenrock blue, his advice as well) put new wood on it, looks good for an old roach.





He was right.

Best,
Ted

Nice gun. Don would approve.

I'm curious about the terminology Lloyd used here to describe the detail filed into the bottom of the frame of his Syracuse gun. He referred to it as "bolsters", and put it in quotation marks as if he is not 100% certain about it. I've often wondered if there is a generally accepted term for that detail, as it is often also seen on higher grade Syracuse Lefevers, and other guns. When I see this detail on Lefevers, it seems that it isn't a case of extra metal that was added to improve strength, but rather metal was removed leaving that attractive little detail on the bottom of the frame. So is there some other term to describe that attractive bit of frame sculpting??? And is it done to add strength, or to reduce weight, or just because the gun maker felt it was aesthetically pleasing?

When I think of "bolsters" on a double gun, I typically think of the extra metal that is more often seen at the 90 degree juncture of the frame and standing breech on double rifles. Those are said to strengthen the frame in that critical area to help accommodate the higher breech pressures produced by rifles. Insufficient strength in that area is often cited when shotgun actions are considered for conversion into double rifles.

Ted, thanks for the name, it now comes back to me. I had been reading his posts and in one he was explaining some of the things about an L.C Smith and one was how to put the top lever spring in. I had a gun that I had taken apart which was easy, the first side lock gun I owned. but not so easy putting that spring in. Well he went through the whole process on how to do it and I did make a tool to compress the spring by drilling a 1/8" hole in the stock near the where the top lever would be. It worked and I so trilled and ever since then I corresponded with Russ. I believe he lived in Missouri and later found out that one of our members lived not far from him. Nice guy.

I didn’t think there was any surplus wood in the head of an LC Smith that would allow for drilling a hole.

I’m more of a Holland pattern sidelock guy, but, don’t own one at the moment.

Best,
Ted

Ted, this is the way Russ told me. Where the 1/8" hole is drilled doesn't seem to affect anything, and you are right, there isn't much wood there to begin with and less with a Hunter One Trigger. The pin is pushing on the top lever shaft into position. There are other ways but this one works for me.




The clamp has a 3/32" dowel pin drilled into the fixed jaw.

David, if you’re still collecting Syracuse hammer gun numbers I will be glad to share details of my “L.C. Smith Maker of Baker Guns, Syracuse, N.Y.” gun.

Keith: To me, a "bolster" is an engineering term. The British refer to similar features on a gun as "drooping bars", this was mostly in reference to their early backaction ejectors (i.e., 1880s John Blanch and WC Scott guns). Over on the LC Smith webpage they are described as being "convex ribs" (I find that term to be a bit imprecise). They do remind me (as well) of the added metal near to the standing breech on heavy magnums and double rifles, thus my expression for them here. Not sure if there is a proper designation for them. On the few British guns that I've seen and handled that are so-equipped, they are clearly an affectation (still "cool" but purely an aesthetic component IMHO).


There actually is a screw in front of that trigger guard (you can't see it in most photography of the Syracuse guns). On Fulton-designed guns it is always well out in front of the guard.

I would assume that an action is filed-up to include them as a means of increasing "rigidity" (these "Syracuse" Smith guns are noticeably more-narrow at their base than the later guns were). Moreover, the trigger groups for these early guns is also set more-forward than on the later guns, giving them a slightly different overall stock-to-action "geometry". Not sure if these "bolsters" are for strength or just for appearances(?) but (much like Keith here) I find them to be rather attractive. The stock heads on these early guns then followed that shape well-back past the front of the trigger-guard(s) which, of course, adds some rigidity there as well.

Sadly, many (if not most) of these "niceties" were dispensed with by the Hunter Brother within a few years of taking-over production. All of the guns became more "square" and broader at the base of their actions, and they were also flattened (no more "bolsters" after 1891, I presume this helped to streamline the manufacturing process?) and then...things really got "streamlined" after the major 1913 "redesign" of all of the models produced in the Fulton plant. Industrial-scale mass-production has its "demands" too, after all.

I would really appreciate that. If you would please, serial number, gauge, barrel length and any interesting features it might have. Thanks.