doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1900 L. Bernard fluid steel barrel?

Bought a Gastinne Renette 16 Gauge with these 1900ish Leopold Bernard fluid steel barrels. Are they stronger than his Damascus?
Any idea what they may be proofed for?
Thanks in advance

If I’m seeing it correctly, that is actually a 15 gauge. I can’t see the other marks clearly enough to read them. It almost looks like Manufrance barrel flats, they proofed their own guns for a period of time.

Best,
Ted

Unfortunately the photos of the barrel flats are too blurry to interpret. I tried blowing them up. Could you please post another photo? Can't see if there is a Paris proof on them (which may or may not have been there). Thanks.

Edit: The barrels are definitely Belgian/Liege.

When it comes in I will post better photos.Always loved their doubles, this one is 16 with dual sears. Looks to be a Francotte type 1 action, with the GR forend lever(love their’s, more refined version of a Scott)


I will have it completely restored, cch , wood, checkering.
My first French gun ( yes much sourced from Belgium.)

No, the tubes are Léopold Bernard & the Roving Bovine had a last number @ 35321 but this one wears what looks to be 36293?? Which may extend the Bernard Barrel Calculus?

>>.....described as "Bernard" were not made by Leopold Bernard. One could order "Bernard" style barrels from the Belgian trade and that's where all those barrels came from. Your Sauer is similar, I am certain.
LB had a touchmark that he used from the 1840s until the end of the company in the early 1900s. Those barrels also had the serial number and date or date code on the lower rib.That is well documented in previous threads. If yours does not have it, by definition it is not a true Bernard.
LB was an ultra-premium barrel maker for most of his carrier including after his death in the 1870s. Barrel sets produced were very few for many decades of production. I think annual production was around 500 per year.
Many barrel makers copied the style of his touch mark including an E. Bernard from Belgium, who produced tons of fake L Bernards.
It does not really matter anyhow. <<

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=316542&page=7

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Leopold died in 1870 but his company continued to manufacture barrels.
There are pre-WW I doubles with the LB mark and also Whitworth steel marks. It is not known if a Belgian barrel maker acquired the Leopold Bernard trademark after the company ceased operation in 1890 but it appears likely. There were a number of Liege "Bernards"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fMs-Mn60ei9QsRcHT5Urm_eHobzJnaDKZiP3FP0fXb0/edit?tab=t.0

More information here
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=313605&page=1

The gun dates to 1910-1921 (I don't see a lettre annale and it's probably pre-WWI) but there should be a chamber gauge mark within a diamond on the flats
Ted is correct. 17.2 mm = .677" = 15 gauge. The L barrel muzzle constriction is 16.2 = .638" so choke is .039"
The marks closest to the breech may be the maker's mark

The pre-1924 16g standard service load was about 1 oz. with 2 3/4 Dram Eq. (1220 fps). Loads of that period ran about 8500 psi
After 1924 the max. service pressure was 600 kg/cm2 = 8534 psi + 10 - 14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement

I can say with confidence that the barrels were of quality fluid steel; likely by Cockerill and likely Siemens - Martin open hearth process. Pre-WWI Siemens were similar to AISI 1021 - 1034 Carbon Steels. I've analyzed a sample of Pieper Eclipse “Hercules Compressed Steel” (Pieper only used Cockerill) and it was non-standard 1030 with a tensile strength of almost 100,000 psi
Manufacture d’Armes à Feu Liégeoise and Fabrique-Nationale-Herstal also used Cockerill steel. At some point Krupp must have licensed Cockerill Sambre, as Fluss Stahl Krupp Essen marked tubes stamped with “Acier Cockerill” have been documented.

Please post high resolution close up images of every mark on the barrels and flats when you get the gun.

With all the Sauer & Krupp trademarks filed in Belgium, Krupp had to have licensed a Belgian compagnie.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>....ased on my Rieger Lefaucheux built in 1898,
35321/(1898-1832)=535 per year in average over 66 years.
One could plot a curve with the data we have.
That's in the same ball park (but bigger) that Purdey by the way, so ultra-premium is appropriate.<<<
Posted to bring the Bernard Barrel Calculus forward....


The last Bernard Barrel Calculus..... Too, his tubes were >>Ultra-Premium<< and was copied by one & all tube-makers. Any Francophile hazard a guess on the phrase >>Ultra-Premium<< in French/Française?

Maybe the Gallopin' Bovine will pass by???

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Great project. I look forward to seeing the finished work.

But of course the tubeset could have been cobbled together in 1899 & the set lonely until WWI?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse