doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Court rules Illegals do not have 2a rights

The Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans has ruled that illegal immigrants do not have second amendment rights.

This bodes well for citizens and the rule of law. It reaffirms these rights are reserved for U.S.citizens.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/plugins/pdfjs-viewer-shortcode/pdfjs/web/viewer.php?file=https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/23-40336-cr0.pdf&attachment_id=1204400&dButton=true&pButton=true&oButton=false&sButton=true#zoom=auto&pagemode=none&_wpnonce=10a06a0d96

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...legal-aliens-have-constitutional-rights/
Read to the end.
There is some wording that this court has zero'd in on and is arguably a valid interpretation.

That said, I would vehemently argue that "...rights are reserved for U.S.citizens" is incorrect.
The US Constitution protects those rights within territory in control of the US Government but the rights are inherent to ALL people.
Sadly, the vast majority of the world is not protected by the US Constitution.

If you are here illegally, you are a felon. The are many non US citizens who are NOT here illegally. I have no problem with the lawful having the full protection of the US Constitution. But, those protections are only for the lawful.

The vast majority of the world did not, and will not, fight for constitutional protections, wherever that might be. I am beyond positive that is the case, and feel neither sadness, or, anything else for that plight. That is on them.

This, is the exceptional place and people. I am over the notion of exporting the concept of a republic to the rest of the world, after witnessing that failure time and time again. I would argue that almost half the voting age citizens here don’t get it, and would sign up for a hard socialist who promised them what any socialist attempt thus far has failed to provide.

The further problem with socialism is you can vote your way into it, but, have to shoot your way out. Very inelegant, and usually unsuccessful, simply because a socialist is really a communist who hasn’t taken away your gun, and then showed you his.

Best,
Ted

"The Second Amendment protects the right of ‘the people’ to keep and bear arms. Our court has held that the term ‘the people’ under the Second Amendment does not include illegal aliens," U.S. Circuit Judge James Ho, a conservative appointee of Republican President Trump, wrote in a concurring opinion.

"As to common sense, an illegal alien does not become ‘part of a national community’ by unlawfully entering it, any more than a thief becomes an owner of property by stealing it."

"The Court has repeatedly explained that ‘an alien… does not become one of the people to whom these things are secured by our Constitution by an attempt to enter forbidden by law’… But that’s, of course, the very definition of an illegal alien – one who ‘attempts to enter’ our country in a manner ‘forbidden by law.’"

"So illegal aliens are not part of ‘the people’ entitled to the protections of the Second Amendment.’

Ho added that for an illegal alien to appeal to the Constitution is to concede that the United States is governed by that supreme law.

"And ‘the power to exclude [aliens from the United States] has been determined to exist’ under our Constitution. So, the Court concluded, ‘those who are excluded cannot assert the rights in general obtaining in a land to which they do not belong as citizens or otherwise,'" Ho wrote.

Of course, Utah Sg and SKB would argue that they aren't convicted felons, but we know what happens when US citizen felons attempt a legal purchase. I wonder if SKB would transfer a denied nics on principal. It might be fun to be a one world order philosopher at the country club, but the currentadmin doesn't even have the inherent sense to protect US citizens abroad.

No need to wonder Craig....you get denied in my shop, your done. Take it up with the Feds and if they clear you, come on back and we can try again. I have never ever transferred a gun without approval, nor would I.

Your first illegal entrance into the States is a misdemeanor, after that they become felonies.

What would be fun for me would to be to move beyond these petty culture wars.

All my best,
Steve

This, as I said is a viable reading/conclusion of a very particular portion.
Very similar cases in regards to other constitutional issues have come down exactly opposite.

This will likely end up a SCOTUS and has a very good change of being overturned.
Can you be 'the people' in regards to one constitutionally recognized right and not for another?

Of course I would argue they are not convicted. "Innocent until proven guilty."
In the case of of your "US citizen felons", they have been convicted of a felony. Yes?

I'd take it step further. Convicted but served your ENTIRE sentence? To include prison time, parole and any restitution?
Your right to own a firearm, vote, etc. Automatically reinstated.

It would appear that Utah Shotgunner and the closet Democrats here who identify as "Independent Moderates" out of fear or embarrassment want it both ways.

The conclusions drawn from the opinion piece from the Liberal Left leaning Hill article were predictable, but hardly the final word. As Ted mentioned, entering the U.S. illegally is a felony. And it is only Liberal Left Democrats that want felons to enjoy the same Constitutionally protected rights such as voting and gun ownership as are guaranteed to U.S. Citizens.

No doubt this will end up being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. And there is no doubt that Democrats who preach about Trump's disrespect for Kangaroo Courts will cry if they lose, and will further push to pack the Court with Liberals. This is yet another reason to do all we can to prevent a Socialist/Communist like Kamala Harris from winning in November.

Democrats fought and succeeded in passing the Gun Control Act of 1968 which prohibits felons and certain others suspected of serious crimes from buying, transferring, or possessing a firearm. For example, someone who had a PFA or Protection From Abuse order, because their wife or girlfriend accused them of domestic violence, would not pass a NICS Background Check, and they cannot purchase or possess firearms... even though they may not have a conviction for the alleged crime.

Anti-Gun Democrats are using so-called Red Flag Laws to confiscate firearms from legal gun owners... without Due Process... and the dummies here who support Illegals owning firearms keep voting Democrat.

Citizens who sell guns in private sales are prohibited by law from selling guns to any person they reasonably suspect may be a prohibited buyer, either because of possible criminal or minor (age) status. Citizens who are not FFL's may not sell a firearm to a legal buyer if they suspect it is a Straw Purchase intended to supply a gun to a prohibited person. Yet now Liberals are making the fallacious argument that Illegal Alien felons who have not been caught, tried, or convicted should have the same Rights as those legal citizens who abide by the 1968 GCA law enacted by Democrats???

We constantly hear Democrats justifying Lawfare against Trump and his associates by repeating the tired refrain, "No person is above the Law", yet we see them obstructing justice everyday in plain sight by preventing Customs and Border Patrol from enforcing U.S. Immigration Law by allowing tens of millions of Illegals to enter, and also to make Illegal Asylum claims. The Biden Administration files lawsuits against Governors who attempt to enforce the laws they flout. They have even bypassed Border Security by Illegally flying hundreds of thousands of Illegals into the U.S. at taxpayer expense. Taxpayer money that was supposed to rebuild our infrastructure is being used to import Illegals and provide them with free housing, Welfare, food, education, health care, cell phones, etc., while we have Veterans and U.S. Citizens living on the street. We also see Democrats obstructing every attempt to try and convict the Biden Crime Family for things like money laundering, tax evasion, and Joe Biden stealing Classified Documents while he was a Senator and Vice President, and had no legal right to remove them for his own financial gain. Remember that when you hear Kamala or Nancy Pelosi say "No person is above the law".

But don't worry about the poor downtrodden Illegals who want guns. They are already procuring them in home invasions and burglaries of Gun Shops... and yours may be next. Tens of millions of military age males aren't invading our country because they just want to pick crops.

It's sad to see people here are concerned that Illegals should have the same right as legal citizens to own firearms, when many of them do not care one bit when anti-gun Democrats like Harris, Biden, etc., state their intention to ban the sale, use, and manufacture of semi-autos by law abiding U.S. Citizens.

As if we needed more proof that Liberalism is a Mental Illness.

Innocent until proven guilty, again, applies to only citizens. The court system of the United States was not designed to admit the entire population of the western hemisphere to determine guilt or innocence. Being here, illegally, constitutes prima facia evidence of a felony, and should result in immediate deportation. No if’s, and’s, or but’s. That is how it is supposed to work, but, the law has been co-opted and otherwise prostituted to support the wishes and desires of various political regimes and their toadies in the business world. It still must be a pretty good place to live in, as so many attempt to get here who are unwilling to do so in legal fashion.

Since the political powers that be seem unwilling to enforce the law as it exists, I would suggest we look into forcing the hand of the politicians and the toadies. Employing the law on that side, let’s say being caught and convicted of employing an illegal alien, results in an immediate death sentence for that violation, with seizure and dispersion of the assets of said endeavor to whatever state or territory it was located in, with nothing going to heirs or descendants of the ownership of said endeavor. Hand in hand with this would be the installation and maintenance of a 250 yard mine field the entire length of the US/ Mexican border. Cheaper, and so much more effective, long term, than a wall.

The law would be suddenly much more important, I’m guessing.

Best,
Ted