doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Simson Suhl O/U?

I've been looking for a Merkel two trigger O/U for a.number.of years for a hunting shotgun.

I found a Simson that looks just like a Merkel at a third of of the cost in similar condition. I understand they were made in the same factory. Is the Simson same quality quality as the Merkel?

1950s manufacture.

Thanks

Oskar

I have seen several sell on Gunbroker over the last year of so. I have tried to buy a couple of smallbore Merkels but they went too high.

Here is a Fortuna listed right now that I believe falls in the same category. The seller claims it was sold by Merkel too. It is a higher grade gun.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1048141614

Here's a Merkel:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1036832245

This 20 ga is about as good as the GDR guns get.

There are numerous Merkel guns plus Fortuna and Simpson guns for sale right now.

If it were a 20 gauge.

According to "Buxton's Guide to Foreign Firearms", you may have trouble finding a 20ga Simson OU. When they were made in Suhl after the war, there was no Western market for the guns. Result: Most were made as 12s or 16s. The quality is very good. Not a lot of them seen in this country, compared to Merkels.

Oops! I left a link out of the post after the 20 gauge comment. I thought this was a new gun when I first saw the pictures but it is a really nice GDR gun.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1043807851

another possibility.....https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1036484952

best regards,

tom

On the Merkel 20 Bore form 1977, the tubes are fastened by the >>Weichlot<< method and the rear lug wears the >>Qualitätszeichen „Hervorragende Qualität”<< or 1st Quality / Excellent Quality which was an advertising ploy to counter the dip in Quality after the early 1950s(1952 or 1953 I recall but could be mistaken) Revolt due to inferior base components. To be honest in the German mind they never did recover..... I seem to recall the mark was just only for Exports?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>There should be a Qualitätszeichen/Quality stamp on the left side of the aft lug on the tubeset. @ this time the Suhl mechanics had exhausted their supply of components and were all but forced to make something out of thin air as those in control were supplying them w/ inferior raw materials, which was the beginnings of a revolt. 1953 saw Russia take full economic control of Suhl & then in September 1955 the mechanics of Suhl were supplied w/ the Izhevsk crucible steel grade 50A as a new/better steel.<<

Some say the 50A doesn't exist....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Note: "Weichlot" is soft solder- typically 50/50. The breech end of traditional bundled barrel sets was joined by "Hartlot" (silver solder, silver braze) (Walter Grass reported that Heym used cartridge cases opened up and hammered flat, for "lot" material when other materials were scarce; it is likely Suhl mechanics did this also). Other, mechanically stronger joining systems would use soft solder. Ribs were joined with soft solder.
Mike

We see a few Merkels in the UK, but very few Simpsons, which I have only seen in the 'boxlock' versions.
The Merkel name has the 303E (top of model range) sidelock which has both Kerstens and underbolts, and a neatly 'hidden' catch for the hand detachable locks.
The 203E - is a simpler sidelock with only the Kerstens, simpler ejectors and 'visible' release for the locks.

Both single and double trigger versions are seen (double trigger o/u guns are not very common in the UK). On all I have owned (3), the triggers have been poor, being set very heavy. They have benefited greatly from proper adjustment by a skilled gunsmith, after which they have been good. It may be coincidence, but two of mine have suffered lifted ribs which has needed attention.