doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com black powder vs smokeless performance

My apologies if this subject has already been covered. I've been looking for an affordable hammer gun for some time. If looking at a gun with damascus barrels and only proofed for black powder what is the difference in performance over smokeless powder loads if any and based on that what choke combinations should I be looking for?

Assuming the gun you find is capable of safely firing blackpowder loads there is no reason it cannot therefore fire smokeless powder loads generating the same pressures.

Blackpowder loads perform exactly like smokeless powder loads of equal velocity albeit with a little more noise and some obscuring smoke if the wind isn't helpful. Therefore your choking depends upon the shotsize and range involved with your shooting needs.

Main difference between black powder loads and smokeless, producing the same velocity, is that BP will recoil more because of the extra powder charge weight. Of course, the cleanup is different, as well. Did you see my ad for an affordable modern hammer gun?

"Nitro for black powder" loading has been around since nitro came along. This is not a new idea. However, it does require one know some things about his gun and loads that are not entirely common. If you decide to use a BP proofed gun, ask here for additional suggestions.

I shoot a lot of skeet with both smokeless and blackpowder. I find they are about the same.
BLACK POWDER.
If you study the charts you find black powder is a bit slower, perhaps 1000 f/s verses 1150 f/s for smokeless.

The gun barrels will get very hot.

Many but not all types of plastic wads will melt.

Without the shot cup the pattern is a bit more open

If you use thin walled brass shells you my have to go to a larger wad.

There is a bit of latitude when loading black powder.

There is a lot of smoke and stink....I love it.

Clean up is a must. You learn to love it and really get to know your gun.

The bp subs will work but not a lot of info is availble from the manufacturer. I have always considered them smokeless by another name.

SMOKELESS

Many of the smokeess loads have lower breach pressures than BP.

Some low pressure loads are sooty especally in winter.

Smokeless load recipes MUST be followed to the letter.

From my experience there is more variation in my shooting than in the choice of black powder or smokeless, other my disagree.

Good luck and ask the board if you have questions.

RPr

Nitro powders produce much more gas per weight/volume than BP. BP has much higher flame temperatures than do most nitro powders. As noted, BP heats the gun and shell components much more than nitro.

While I love shooting BP, I'm sure glad I have the nito alternative when there is not time for BP - BP is "needy" stuff.

Brings up an interesting point Rocket. Does BP actually burn at a higher temp. than smokeless, in similar quantities or does the BP charge produce higher heat because there is so much more of it?
To Rpr: I don't need to study charts. My statement was that if brought to the same velocity, BP will produce more recoil than smokeless. That's a fact. Writers who probably haven't done much of it, love to explain how BP produces a "push", rather than a punch, suggesting the recoil is less with BP. They are either firing the BP loads at a significantly lower velocity or are simply F.O.C, most likely the latter. If you shoot a round of trap, for example, with BP cartridges and follow that with a round of trap with smokeless, again, assuming similar velocities, the difference in recoil is remarkable, to say the least.

The Drams Equivelent markings for shotshells were derived from Black Powder carges. Thus a 3 dram equiv 1 1/8oz load was to produce similar balistics to an actual 3 dram charge of black powder behind 1 1/8oz of shot. 3 drams = 82 grs a 3 dram equiv of smokeless may be as light as 20grs or about 25% the wt of the BP. As the wt of powder is a factor in recoil the heavier BP charge produces more recoil for same balistics as Jim pointed out. Seems most BP availale to us today doesn't produce those same balistics, probably from use of inferior charcoals. "If" however you load to the same balistics, BP will recoil heavier.

2-Piper, from limited experience in muzzleloading and BPC rifles, Swiss brand of blackpowder probably comes pretty close to producing similar velocities to the old dram equivalent loads.