doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Drilling Questions

pomofo,
OK the photos show it is not one with rifle hammer on triggerplate. it is still an interesting drilling however. Is there a crown R on the rifle barrel? If so, it could have been rebored and new number added( bore, not groove or bullet diameter). My impression is that if an old number was polished off, it may have been bore diameter expressed in gauge. It looks like a drilling proofed during the transition to the improvements to the 1891 proof law, in 1911-12. This is largely because it has bore diameter in mm, but no case length. We see this pretty often during the transition period. I would date it to 1911-12. The right hand tumbler has a small pin that the left one doesn't have, there is likely a small "fly" on the right side that prevents the half cock notch from stopping the hammer when it is fired by the set trigger ( ie trigger not held back). It is interesting that the Tell rifle is chambered for 9.3x57R/360. This is the metric designation for the British 360 2 1/4" cartridge. I have been looking for a rifle in this caliber. I you need to sell it to help pay for the drilling, I'm interested and would give Dave his normal "cut".
Mike

Existing proof law as I understand used the same criteria for proofing smokeless as Black, IE a given % of overload was required. This resulted i unnecessarily high pressures for smokeless. Many of those which were Nitro Proofed specified a very light load of smokeless. I do have an 8x58/16/16 drilling proofed in 1907 which has all 3 barrels With the N mark.

Early 9.3x72R guns were black powder proofed only, The load was increased at a later date & they were then smokeless proofed. I have a hammer drilling in 9.3x72R/16 by Miller & Val Greiss which was proofed in 1913. All three of these barrels were also Nitro proofed. Supposedly the rims of the smokeless cartridges were thicker so they would not chamber in the black powder proofed guns. I cannot confirm this as I only have a few smokeless cases.

There's no crown R on the rifle barrel. Just the eagle, crown U, 8.7mm, and that partially erased mark to the right of the eagle. Looks like the left half of a G or O or C, or maybe the stamp slipped.

Both the rifle barrel and the action have two different serial numbers stamped, one that I would call an "older" more stylized serif-type font, and the other a "newer" cleaner font. There are remnants of proof marks under the ribs that join the rifle barrel to the shotgun barrel, leading me to believe that maybe the shotgun barrels were proofed before assembly, then maybe reproofed after assembly?

There are no crown N marks anywhere, just the eagle next to Nitro on the exterior of the shotgun barrels near the breech. There's also "Fluss-Stahl Krupp-Essen" going around the breech end of the shotgun barrels, partially covered by the rear claw mount base, so "Fluss-Stahl Krupp-Essen" is restamped on the outside of each of the shotgun barrels in a different font. Very peculiar.

Thanks for pointing out that pin on the tumbler, I hadn't noticed that before.

The Tell rifle is marked 108,49 on the outside of the action, and on top of the chamber is inscribed "Tell V. 360/57" which leads me to believe that it's 9.3x57R/360. I can only fit a .302" pin gage into the muzzle end, though, which is odd. The lands are very high, however, so I'll have to try to take a closer look and try to measure across the grooves.

Yes King, I fully intended to insult your friend Jagermeister, because I don't care much for trolls and liars. You seem to find fault with that attitude. I suppose that's because it hits so close to home. I also notice that you were totally silent when your pal Last Dollar called James M. a wop. Would you believe me if I made the same lame excuse he did and claimed that I thought it was a term of endearment? The whole context of his reaction to Jim's reference to the extreme anti-gunner George Soros... sounded quite endearing. Of course we know that you consider Soros a distinguished American Jew:



Here's some derogatory words you posted that are highly insulting to those of us who actually cherish our Constitutional rights to Keep and Bear Arms. pomofo should know that not everyone on this site is what they pretend to be. Here is a small sample of your anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric King... your legacy here. These are your own unedited words, so I'm certain you must be proud of them:




Remember that one King? I get a kick out of it when avowed Atheist's like you invoke the name of Jesus to make a dishonest point.

Here's the one where you used the same words used by Anti-Gun Organizations and attempt to portray gang-bangers as children, and to justify voting for the Liberal Left politicians who wish to disarm us.



Now these two statements were extremely insulting to all law abiding gun owners. How very crude and insulting of you to even suggest that we accept mass murders.





And everyone should be aware that you obviously refuse to accept the 2008 Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions, and that you continue to make the totally false claim that the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a recent invention crafted by our NRA:








Also, you never responded to my answer to your lie about how your off topic Boer War History Lesson ended up in the "Hoarder or Collector" thread. And old colonel once again wasn't concerned about his pal King's thread diversion:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...3389#Post503389

By the way, I know that you and old colonel have been diligently working behind the scenes in a vain attempt to silence me. In fact, I know much more than that.

Oh yes King, I also love your reference to the forum rules. Do you recall all of the times that you violated the rules Dave Weber laid down in the "Preserve the Second Amendment Thread: Informational" that was pinned to the top of the Double Gun Topics list until you and your fellow anti-gun troll pal Ed Good kept disrupting it? In fact, the only posts that were totally deleted in that thread were made by you.

And how about another time when you went against Dave's wishes in this thread with your repeated bashing of our new pro-2nd Amendment President Donald Trump. People who want to understand that you are here to undermine our foundations and our freedoms should read this whole long thread, especially your posts. And Jagermeister pretending that he voted for Trump after bashing him for months prior to the election should make anyone realize he can't be trusted either:

Trump 2016 Wahooo! It's a lock.

As I blithely eat my Colonel Chicken, I�m guessing keith does not like King - - - which I glean from posts here.


______________________
Making do with what I got.
https://youtu.be/_564TNMFz8Q

In this case Colonel in Old Colonel refers to members US military rank. I bet Dziadu eats fried chicken with mash potatoes and sliced carrots like a pro. Gee, perhaps we should warn him about Chinese raised chicken being brought into the USA?

He loves me, lonesome. I don't ignore his precious posts, and that's paramount with him. He anticipates my death, he says, to post a final dig in members gone. At 86, he won't have long to wait. The pleasure I give him makes me feel useful, warm and fuzzy all over. The holy book says it's better to give than receive!

pomofo,
I agree with miller about proofing in the early days of nitro powder. Early barrels were proofed before bundling them together, this was the provisional proof. It was done this way, so less work would be lost if the barrels failed. The proof after assembly is the Definitive Proof. Absent the crown R, the barrel wasn't rebored, then. You might be right about a die slipping. The "polished out" mark may be one of the workers marks. There are three common "Gauge" marks used on pre 1911 9.3 rifles; 118,35-108,49- and 99,70. The 108,49 as found on your rifle seems to be the most common and usually equates to a barrel with about .362-.364" groove diameter. If you "slug" the barrel you should be able to measure it( be careful of odd number of grooves).
Mike

108.49 is the Gauge of the rifles Bore. This converts to a diameter of .350" (8.89 mm), sounds right for a 9.3 with deep rifling grooves.