doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com German 16 gauge 2&3/4 proofmark question?

I am looking at a really interesting German gun, It is chambered in 16ga 2&3/4, I want to make sure its in original proof and has not been opened up here in the USA.

My question as a novice is, did the Germans use 16 2&3/4 shells/chambers or 2.5 like the English and if they did use 16ga, how would it be marked on the flats?

Thank you!

Unless you see the number "70" stamped on the flats or on the cartridge extractor, it left the proof facility w/ 65mm +/- 2.5mm chambers.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

how much barrel wall do you have in front of the chambers?

The English used 2 3/4" and 3" 16 bores at that time too. Usually if the gun does not have chamber length markings it will be 2 1/2". Don't be tempted to lengthen the chambers and thereby weaken the gun as I'm sure you can find the right ammunition if it is 2 1/2". One thing you may find with German guns of that period is that they had a sharp chamber cone; more or less a dead stop rather than a taper, as they were primarily intended for paper case roll crimped cartridges that opened dead to the start of the end of the chamber. Might be worth having a gunsmith who is familiar with European guns take a look at it and advise. Lagopus.....

Sometimes 2 3/4" on the extractor. I had a 20ga Sauer imported by Abercrombie & Fitch in the 30's that was marked that way. Not a surprise, I expect, since the gun was headed to this side of the Pond . . . where we didn't speak much metric prior to WWII.

A 16ga with original 65mm chamber will have the 16 in a circle. If it has a 16 in a circle and a 2 3/4"(70mm)chamber it has been rechambered. If it was rechambered and re proofed in Germany it will have new proof with 16 and a 70, and depending on when it was done, it will have a crown R (repair)proof.
Mike

Gentlemen, Thank you for the response, this is the gun, so I suppose its been opened. Which is a shame as its such a great gun.


http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100924660

It might be worth asking the seller to confirm the chamber length. I bought a French double desribed as having 2 3/4" chambers that were actually 2 5/8". Even if the chambera have been lengthened, if the wall thickness is there the main effect is to widen your ammo options and maybe provide some negotiating leverage. That's a good looking old gun!

Hmmm. The Sauer 20ga I owned (Model 280, imported by Abercrombie & Fitch in the 30's) had 20 in a circle on the barrel flats and 2 3/4" marked on the extractor. One should never assume, but in this case I did. And my assumption was that the chambers came that way from Sauer, since the gun was made for export to the States. But I suppose A&F could have had them lengthened after the guns arrived in this country. Might be something Bob Beach would know about.

But probably does not apply to the gun in question, which doesn't appear to have been made for export. Agree that it's a very unique and interesting gun. Given the weight, I don't know that I'd be overly concerned about lengthened chambers. Would be good to have wall thickness at the end of the chambers measured by a gunsmith.

Yeah, I would say that A&F, Daly, G&H, etc. performed work here & added the American, Imperial or British units. I'd like to see a German inland w/ Imperial/British units.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse