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#480218 05/10/17 06:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Does anyone have information on Lyon and Lyon and a picture of a trade label? Also, I understand that they did not make their own rifles, but imported them from England. Any info as to what company made their rifles? Kirby Hoyt indicated that Charles Osbourne made a lot of them, but I also heard J. Lang and Webley and Scott. Any information would be appreciated! I purchased a 12 Bore underlever hammer 7 dram double rifle (not in hand yet)made by Lyon and Lyon. Thanks!

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Gary, IGC has the following, as well as a photo and two trade labels. However, I am currently away on leave (AWOL!) so if you send me a PM in a weeks time I'll be able to get them to you.

Name Lyon & Lyon
Address1 Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road
Address2 3 Wellesley Place
City/Town Calcutta
Country India
Trade Gunmaker & cycle agent, importers of gymkhana and sporting requisites
Dates 1896-1940

Notes
James Lyon was born in 1859 in Lundie, Angus, Scotland, about 10 miles from Blairgowrie and the same distance from Dundee. He was the son of George Lyon, a meal miller (b.1829 in Caputh, Perthshire), who in turn was the son of James Lyon, also a miller, and Mary Bisset Lyon. George was recorded in the 1861 census, but his wife (Rachel nee Dow) was not recorded; she appears to have died by that time although George was not described as a widower. George and Rachel's daughters were Georgina (b.1853 in Caputh, Perthshire) and Mary (b.1857 in Perth), and James was their only son.
George died on 13 December 1862, and the orphaned children went to live with great aunt, Louisa Bisset, who lived in Spitalfield, near Caputh which is about 10 miles from Blairgowrie. The name Bisset was not uncommon in Perthshire and Aberdeenshire but there may be a connection with David Crockart who married Margaret Bisset.

In the 1871 census James and Mary were recorded living in Caputh with Louisa Bisset, but Georgina was not recorded.

James reportedly moved to Inverness where he was a lodger living with George Batchen and his wife, Elizabeth McKenzie Batchen, and their family at 6 Innes Street (see below). He appears to have been apprenticed to a gunmaker in Inverness, the gunmaker probably being D Gray & Co at 27 Union Street.

In about 1882 James appears to have moved to London where he worked for James Purdey, but his precise occupation is not known. In 1885 he was recruited by F W Prike who had just taken over the management of R B Rodda & Co in Calcutta, India.

In 1890 one of George Batchen's daughters, Janet McKenzie Batchen, known as Netta (b.1863 in Knockbain, Ross-shire), went out to Calcutta where she married James on 29 September 1891. In 1895 James left R B Rodda & Co and in 1896 established his own business at Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road. The firm was named Lyon & Lyon, possibly because there was another firm named Lyon & Co in India at the time. There is no record of there being any other person named Lyon being involved in the business. However, James described himself as the managing partner. His assistant was listed as G Phillips, and the firm's London agents were Colley & Co of 4 Lombard Court. James described the business as "Gun, Rifle and Revolver Manufacturers, and Importers of Gymkhana & Sporting Requisites".

In 1897 the firm were appointed agents for Joseph Lang & Sons of 10 Pall Mall, they were also agents for the Calcutta Cycle Co.

In 1899 the firm described themselves as gun and rifle manufacturers and opened a rifle range at Ballygunge. They stated that their agents were J Lyon & Co of 4 Lombard Court, these were the offices of Colley & Co.

In 1905 the partners were listed as James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton, J Broughton was listed as an assistant.

The firm was not listed again until 1920 when the proprietor was J Broughton and his assistants were W Mayer and Miss Mayer, this could imply that James had semi-retired but still a major share of the business. The firm was listed again in 1924.

In 1927 when his son, Louis, was married, James described himself as a retired Indian merchant, but in 1929 James Lyon and G Phillips Shelton were recorded as governing directors of the business, J Broughton and D J Todd were described as directors, but in later years were described as assistants (D J Todd had worked for R B Rodda & Co from 1911 to 1926). H J Connors, J Henderson and Miss S McDonald were described as assistants.

In 1931 James recorded as a retired gun manufacturer living at 31 Culduthel Road, Inverness. He had died by 1935 which was when Netta died.

In 1934 the firm was sold to F B Prike of R B Rodda & Co. At that time the employees of the firm were Miss B Ord, D J Todd, H J Connors and D F D Hazells. The business was relocated to Rodda's premises at 3 Wellesley Place.

After stocks of unsold guns were sold no further guns bearing the Lyon & Lyon name were made. In 1937 D J Todd left the firm to go to work for Manton & Co, he remained there until 1943. In 1939 S K Bannerjee was recruited as an assistant, but the firm appears to have ceased trading in 1940 the remaining staff becoming Rodda employees.

Most of the firm's guns were made in Birmingham by trade manufacturers, but some guns were imported from America and Europe.

At some time the firm were appointed gun makers to His Excellency the Viceroy and Governor-General, and they were agents for or representatives of (as were most of India's gunmakers) Westley Richards & Co Ltd, Cogswell & Harrison, W W Greener, Webley & Scott, Holland & Holland, W J Jeffery & Co, Wilkinson Sword Co and Winchester.

The firm invented their "Lethal Ball" shotgun bullet which was made for them by Kynoch (other reports say Eley Bros 254 Grays Inn Road about Sept 1908). This bullet was introduced to compete with Rodda's "Rotax" bullet, Manton & Co's "Contractile" bullet, and Holland & Holland's "Paradox". These bullets were for use against dangerous soft-skinned game. The Lethal Ball could be used in cylinder or choked barrels or barrels with Paradox type rifling. It was spherical and made of two (later four) soft iron discs interlocking at right angles. These were placed in a mould into which the lead was poured. On impact, the lead pieces became detached from the iron frame. The bullets were not accurate over anything but very short range mainly because they were undersized (about 16 bore) in order to cope with choke and rifling (similar ammunition was issued to the Home Guard in the Second World War).

Other Info
The firm sold cartridges under the name the "Times".

Tim

Last edited by trw999; 05/10/17 10:19 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Posts: 152
Thanks Tim, really appreciate the info. will contact you later for the pictures of the labels.

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In the A.H. Fox Gun Co. records I noticed an order for a dozen consecutive serial numbered 12-gauge AE-Grades, with 32-inch barrels chambered for 3-inch shells, ordered by Lyon & Lyon near the end of 1919.

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Lyon & Lyon, Calcutta, Grand Hotel Arcade, 16 Chowringee Road. Gunmaker & Cycle Agent, Importers of Gymkhana and Sporting Requisites 1896-1940.


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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Posts: 152
Thanks Drew, neat photo!

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Sidelock
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Lyon & Lyon for sale a few years ago.

English Double Hammer Rifle Built for Lyon & Lyon Calcutta .500/.465 Cordite

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100827705


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 152
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 152
Nice rifle Argo44, I always wanted a 500/465 and did look at this double rifle. Problem is that it is way over priced. Double hammer nitro rifles are hard sells. The value of average boxlock double rifles are falling so why by a hammer rifle (even though I am partial to the underlever hammer double rifles. Thanks for the post!


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