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Joined: Oct 2014
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 312 Likes: 1 |
I was talking with the manager of a local gunshop that specializes in collectibles and older shotguns. He says the market for older American SxS is currently very soft; and also weak for Browning A-5's. Much more so than in recent years. He Had probably two dozen (plus) Parkers, Sterlingworths, Remingtons, SxS, etc. on the racks with little movement, at what I thought were reasonable prices. And he had about 10 A-5's in various condition. In prior years, those A-5's and Sterlingworth's priced under $1k would have moved quickly.
I suspect much of this is age related. I often shoot at several sporting clay ranges. The younger guys (under 40, of which there are many) all seem to shoot O/U's or modern semi-autos with choke tubes. The only guys that I see shooting SxS's have more gray hair than I do -- or no hair at all.
Its not surprising that Spanish SxS makers, such as Ugartechea and Arrieta are going broke. These younger shooters seem unlikely to lay out $4k to $10k for a new SxS.
The times, they are a changing...
gold40
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 836 Likes: 189
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 836 Likes: 189 |
I hear this story over and over. I do not discredit it or intend to be argumentative. I ask what has really changed?
I am 37 and have been heavy on side by sides since I figured out I could "afford one" 12 years or so now. That said I am not buying Sterlingworths or a-5s.
Now, I would say more than 50% of people in my circle ( work, friends, family ) are gun owners - less than 10% hunt and 0% have a side by side. That zero percent includes every person I have hunted with including my dad and grandads friends and hunting buddies.
So what's changing ?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 78
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 78 |
There's a learning curve involved.
In my case, I took up shooting at age 23 with a Remington 1100 simply because it was all I could afford and pay the rest of the bills too.
Next gun was an O/U.
I managed to live without a SxS shotgun until age 40 or so when my income level marginally improved and I chose to explore additional aspects of the hobby.
There are no end of places where the time and resources expended since then could have gone.
It's a hobby for a special kind of idiot. Not everyone qualifies.
As for A5's, the market went nuts when the gun was discontinued and asking prices were unrealistic for quite some time.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Another take on it is that buyers that are left are more educated as far as value. What were the shop's prices? Were they realistic, or typically overpriced? You know, a 10% gun at a 60% price.
Regards
Ken
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651 |
The market is very soft for doubles unless in great condition or rather rare. Cash is again king in buying doubles or pumps.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
I was talking with the manager of a local gunshop that specializes in collectibles and older shotguns. He says the market for older American SxS is currently very soft; and also weak for Browning A-5's. Much more so than in recent years. He Had probably two dozen (plus) Parkers, Sterlingworths, Remingtons, SxS, etc. on the racks with little movement, at what I thought were reasonable prices. And he had about 10 A-5's in various condition. In prior years, those A-5's and Sterlingworth's priced under $1k would have moved quickly.
I suspect much of this is age related. I often shoot at several sporting clay ranges. The younger guys (under 40, of which there are many) all seem to shoot O/U's or modern semi-autos with choke tubes. The only guys that I see shooting SxS's have more gray hair than I do -- or no hair at all.
Its not surprising that Spanish SxS makers, such as Ugartechea and Arrieta are going broke. These younger shooters seem unlikely to lay out $4k to $10k for a new SxS.
The times, they are a changing...
gold40
The market for old SxSs isn't going to get any better because fewer buyers and more guns brought to the market are not a good combination. I recommend mass-produced O/Us as game guns to new upland hunters. Beretta made some good ones in 12ga with steel receiver and weight as low as 6.5lb. The smaller gauges weigh even less. Another good one would be Winchester 6500 "hunter" with 70mm chambers and Winchokes. If one doesn't mind fixed chokes old Mirokus with double triggers are fine choice.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
Jaegermeister, while I agree the market for low end Field grade side by sides is soft, that fact represents bargains available to new shooters. Not a reason to stay away. Quality guns can be purchased for good prices.
Not sure why why you are unable to recommend a decent SXS, how often do you use either a SXS versus a Berreta O/U?
In line with Marks 21, I do not think the world is changing that much in that SXS have been a minority fringe market for a long time. But that is true for many quality luxury goods.
High end guns will hold their value. Low and mid range guns will continue to be good guns for the money.
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Small local gunshop had six Model 12s before Christmas. I bought the best of the lot that was beyond beat, I'll get a pic up, went back after Christmas, all of them were gone.
When I asked, the owner said, "We can't keep them in here."
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,786 Likes: 673
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,786 Likes: 673 |
Geez Jagermeister, with the market for side by side doubles being so soft, one would think you could finally afford to buy one lousy double gun. Did your local gun shop have to buy flood insurance because of you drooling on their counters?
So tell us, why does a guy who doesn't own a single double spend so much time spewing bullshit on a double gun forum? And please tell us more about repackaging shotgun shells in Grex buffer, and what advantage there is to repackaging shells in Grex. If you can't do that, please tell us why you feel the need to make shit up in order to make people think you actually know anything about guns and shooting. I think you should stick to things you know such as stuffed toy animals and kishka. Who did steal the kishka anyway?
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,572 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,572 Likes: 165 |
The sense I get is that American classic smallbores still move pretty well at reasonable prices. When you look at what's available, you see lots of 12's--which is understandable since far more 12's were made. I think it's even truer with Brit doubles, where there's an even greater spread between 12's made vs smallbores.
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