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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
Good evening Forum members. I received my hammer Ed Kettner 16Ga today. I have posted pics of the action, barrel flats, and the gun below. Any information you can provide based on the proof marks (date manufactured, etc.) would be greatly appreciated. The barrels ring true and although the bores are a little rough, they are very good for the most part. Judging from the end of the barrels and their thickness, it is probably choked full of extra full. The blueing is worn in a few areas and there are some light rust spots, but I think they can be cleaned up. There used to be sling swivels on the barrels and stock, but they have been removed. The gun seems to lock up tight but the top level does not return to the middle by itself. It seems the spring is broken. The rebounding hammers are low profile with stout springs. They seem to work well, although I think the left one needs a bit of attention (cleaning for sure). The horn trigger guard also needs some attention. The butt plate is also horn and the victim of a bug/moth attack, but I think it can also be repaired. The stock and forend checking is fine, but very worn. The stock seems to be sound with no cracks, but has a lot of scratches. However, it does seem to have some nice figure. If it were you, would you just do a service repair (strip & clean, open the chokes to be suitable for hunting and sporting clays, and fix any mechanical issues) or do a full restoration (re-blue barrels, refinish wood and recut checkering, repair horn trigger guard and butt plate) in addition to service repair? I realize that continental guns don't hold/appreciate their value as English guns do. BillK          
Last edited by BillK; 11/04/16 08:34 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
Last edited by BillK; 11/04/16 08:33 PM.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
Nice looking gun. Only you can decide if you want to spend the cost of a restoration. Lord knows many of us have done so knowing we would never see our money back at selling time. The key thing is knowing that you will have more into it than likely what it is worth when finished. But many things that are restored are like that. If your main concern is having a sound, very nice looking gun, then go for it.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
Lovely adornment. The frame is Sauer & Sohn but I do not see any Sauer & Sohn process marks on the tubeset. A date range can be attained via the 36490 serial nummer.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
I would hazard a guess there was an additional tubeset ordered by a client thru Kettner post 1912 for the Sauer & Sohn longarm. Kettner for some reason didn't source Sauer & tapped the tube mechanic that used the jagged incircled K, gear or acorn, etc. and possibly cobbled it together @ Kettner?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
The tubes are marked:
Near the left chamber: FLUSS STAHL
Near the right chamber: KRUPP ESSEN
On the left tube - top: COLN SUHL
On the left tube - bottom: S with a Crown over and then K and another K under it
On the right tube - top: ED KETTNER
On the left tube - bottom: S with a Crown over and then K and another K under it
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 378 |
http://christophfunk.dk/files/3714/2174/9050/Sauer_artikel_rev2.pdfThe frame would date to say 1890 then the client came to Kettner post 1912 & ordered a fluid steel tubeset to apparently replace a patter welded set? Then Kettner's serial nummer 739 was applied to frame & tubeset. Probably a Modell Nr. 3 Sauer & Sohn. Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
Thank you Raimey.
How does Modell Nr. 3 rate in comparison to the rest of their line offerings?
(Higher or lower quality)?
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
Does the fact that this is not the original subset to the gun reduces its value, or it does not matter in this case, since it is done by a reputable gunsmith and it is fluid steel?
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 272 Likes: 3 |
Good evening Raimey and Sam Ogle. I was researching the forum and found your old post from 12/28/15 of Sam's J P Sauer & Sohn 16Ga model V hammer gun, (I posted the link below). The serial numbers are only 52 numbers apart (mine 36490, Sam's 36542). The frame design, locks and hammers are the same. The water table on my gun also has a large and a smaller crown. The engraving is carving relief in both guns and although different, it has some resemblance. Could it be that it was executed by the same master? Mr. Ogle, would you be so kind as to post some pictures of of the frame (top, bottom, sides) and water table and also the butt plate? I am curious if it is horn like on mine. Are the barrels original to your gun? http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=430502
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