doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1938 L.C. SMITH

Hello: I am looking at a vintage 1938 [serial no. 167,0xx] L.C. Smith [Hunter Arms].Field Grade not FW. 16 Ga. 26in. barrels. Chokes unknown until I go back with a gauge, I am hoping ic/mod or cyl/ic.! Double Triggers and Extractors.

Questions:

1. Should the original 1938 butt plate be flat blued steel[overall 85%] with the middle area horizontally grooved except at the heel and toe? No verbiage or writing on it.

2. The barrel and trigger guard bluing is still good but needs s very light buff @ 85% overall, case coloring is a solid 75% and still very strong in the front areas of the locks...no real obvious abusive wear. Bore and mechanics are good, flat on face-lever strong @ 5:10. The checkering is still 90% but the buttstock has been either steel wooled or worn down to the wood there but no real dings or dents or scratches. The muzzle is slightly scratched from the old man using it as a crutch to get around his house [explains finish wear on the buttstock???]

3. I can get it for $450, is this price...a steal...normal...or above average. I am a college student and please I need some L.C.SMITH opinions. Also the 2 3/4in. cartridges were standard by then, weren't they?

THANK YOU

H

16ga.....you will have to measure the chambers...they were the last one to go to 2 3/4in chambers....yours could still be short chambered...

Butt plate should be some kind of bakelite or such....but in the pattern you describe......

well worth 450 in my book.......

That 16 gauge should be on the FW frame- not the R or std frame- the two extra mounting holes with machine screw heads at the 'tongue" part of the lockplates, and the smaller bottom barrel lug are the "look-fors" here. I would check the chamber depth first- you can use 2.5" RST shells, better move IMO that opening shorter chambers- any cracks around the lock plates or tangs- if so, be advised that restock an LC Smith sidelock with a newer buttstock will rip through your 401K like Bernie Madoff pilfering a Hedge Fund.

16-Gauge History lesson --

From the late 1890s until after WW-I, the heaviest 16-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies offered were 2 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 22 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 1 ounce of shot. Those loads could be had in the "standard" 2 9/16 inch case or any of the longer 2 3/4, 2 7/8 or 3-inch cases. In late 1922 or early 1923, Western Cartridge Co. added the 16-gauge to their progressive burning powder loads called Super-X, but unlike the 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads which were put up in Western's 2 3/4 inch FIELD shells, the 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load was put up in their 2 9/16 inch FIELD shell. When the Lubaloy shot Super-X loads were introduced in July 1929, they were put up in Western's high brass RECORD shell, but the 16-gauge still in a 2 9/16 inch length case.

The 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16 inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --







I'm thin on Winchester ammo catalogues, but for sure by 1934, they were offering a similar 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge load.

The 2 3/4 inch Magnum shells with 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge first appear in the December 15, 1954, Western Cartridge Co. catalogues.

Western Cartridge Co. added a 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge to their Super-X offerings for 1938. From 1938 through 1942 they called this 16-gauge 2 3/4 inch Super-X shell "Magnum", even though it was still a 1 1/8 ounce payload. By Western Cartridge Co.'s March 7, 1946, catalogue the term "Magnum" was gone from this 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell. In Western's January 2, 1947, catalogue, the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell was gone from both the chilled shot and the Lubaloy offerings, and their only 2 9/16 inch shells being offered were Xpert. This may have been an oversight, as the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell with chilled shot is back in Western Cartridge Co.'s April 8, 1948, catalogue and price list, and the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X loads remained until their last appearance on Western Cartridge Co.'s January 2, 1962, catalogue and price lists, where it is "available until stocks depleted." By Western Cartridge Co.�s January 2, 1963, catalogue and price lists the new Mark 5 was introduced and all the 16-gauge Super-X offerings are 2 3/4 inch. By the January 2, 1964, Western Cartridge Co. catalogue and price list the 16-gauge 2 9/16 inch Xpert shell is gone as well.

A 1938 vintage Field Grade L.C. Smith should have a plain, grooved, hard rubber butt plate. It is extremely unlikely that an L.C. Smith 16-gauge of that era wouldn't be on the featherweight frame.

gunlvur, that is not the typical buttplate. Most were a hard rubber (gutta percha) with the horizontal lines.

Most of the Field Grades were hardware store guns and came through with mod/full chokes. The hardware store when ordering from Hunter Arms could put in an order for imp.cyl/mod to carry a different selection for customers.

The chambers should be 2 9/16". As stated the 16 gauge was the last one to have them changed to 2 3/4" and earlier 16 gauges that do have 2 3/4" are usually stamped Chambers 2 3/4 Inches in an oval on the barrel's water table. I have one from 1939 that still hase 2 9/16" chambers.

As to the price, sounds right if as you described.