doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Flues Questions....

Hello! I just purchased a 1915 vintage Ithaca Flues 12 gauge and have some questions. The water table is marked as a Grade 1, but the 1915 catalog has a description that does not quite match my gun. The barrels on mine are marked 'KRUPP FLUID STEEL', and the catalog lists 'Stub Twist'. The lowest grade in the catalog with Krupp barrels is the 'No. 2 Pigeon Gun'. The engraving on mine is the same as the illustrated 'No. 1-1/2'. Was it common on lower grades to offer barrel and engraving options? This is my first Ithaca and my only reference materials are reprints of the 1914 and 1915 catalogs. Thank you!

From 1915 through 1919, the low end Ithaca Gun Co. Flues Models, Field Grade, No. 1, No. 1 Special, and No. 1 1/2 were in a constant state of change. It began in the summer of 1915 when the bold floral engraving was introduced on the No. 1 1/2 --



Then the zig-zag border engraving which had been the No. 1 1/2, became the No. 1 --



By December 1919, the No. 1 Special had disappeared and the No. 1 and No. 1 1/2 were combined as the new No. 1 --



Ithaca all through that time period was phasing out their composite iron and steel barrels (Twist and Damascus) and certainly using up Krupp tubes, which had fallen into disfavor during the unpleasantness in Europe, on product which was never catalogued with Krupp barrels.

Along that same line, I've seen A.H. Fox guns of about 1920 vintage with barrels roll-stamped CHROMOX FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL on top, but showing vestiges of Krupp markings on the underside. We've also seen a Flues Model Ithaca from this period that appeared to have steel barrels but when refinished one tube showed up to be Twist!!

The gun was likely just ordered that way.

Thank you!

I agree with Researcher, during that period, there were lots of transitional guns being made.
The grade stamps, engraving, and barrel composition varied.
I guess that it was related to what parts were available and shipping dates of completed guns.
Here is an example.... What grade are these 16's???





No grade stamp at all.
Now, the engraving. Both have Krupp barrels.



I've seen more than several other smallbores in the lower grades with Krupp barrels during this time frame.
I would not find your gun's stamping, engraving, and Krupp barrels to be unusual.
It would be interesting to see how close the serial number is in relation to these guns.
If anyone has ....#77 or 78, I might be interested.

The serial number chronology in the Second Edition of Walter's book, The Ithaca Gun Company, From the Beginning, shows the serial number range from 256700 to 268199 for 1915. The two guns R.R. is showing are probably some of the very first No. 1 1/2s with the new bold floral engraving, and as the magazine ad stated, the new No. 1 1/2 was available with Krupp barrels as well as the previously featured Damascus barrels. Maybe Ithaca wasn't quite sure what grade these floral engraved guns were going to be when these were built. What is the earliest serial number anyone has observed on one of these bold floral engraved guns?

These were April, 1915 guns. Several guns were made with an * posted in the grade column. The next page starts listing the grade 1 1/2. I think the already stated wisdom prevails--they were made before the word of their grade reached the production. About a dozen guns were made before the 1 1/2 listing is posted.

Thanks for the comment Walt.
Would it be fair to guess that when Ithaca started offering/providing some of the grade 1 smallbores with Krupp barrels and basic 'field' engraving that they chose to add a bit of 'flair' which was the floral engraving?
As most companies considered Krupp barrels an upgrade, I'm thinking that they just didn't want to give them away... though they seemed to at some point.