doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Kettner Drilling 16 ga SxS and 7x57

Hello all and thank you for reading my post. This is my first post here on the doublegunshop forum.

I'd like to ask a couple questions on a Kettner Drillings I have. I've done a bit of research on it and think I know most everything about it, but my confidence level is not 100%.

It is stamped 233, was it manufactured in Feb. of 1933? It appears to me to be correct to that time period. It is stamped "Franz Kettner" on the top of the right barrel, but stamped E.K. on the barrel (under the forearm) Who actually manufactured it? Franz or Eduard or neither? What does the scripted "L" mean (seen below "KAL 16)? What does the stamped "S" mean on the end of "7 X 57"? It also appears there is a "3t" stamped on the rifle barrel, does that mean anything?

Any information is appreciated. Any additional information is great too. Thank you in advance for the help.
Matt

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...047377015680419[/img]

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...037324843283699[/img]

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...097196145951553[/img]

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...874710559496138[/img]

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...520096156023508[/img]

[img:right]http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/psukli...497077003723158[/img]

I apologize I can't answer your questions...I'd be asking the same ones!!! There are those who can and no doubt will be along to do so. My post is mostly to say welcome and wow...a very nice drilling in a fine cartridge, congrats!

Matt,
More than likely, the gun was manufactured by someone else and marketed by Franz Kettner. A couple years ago, there was a nice article in "Der Waffenschmied", one of the publications of the German Gun Collectors Assn., about the two Kettner firms.You can obtain a copy from the home office.If you are not a member, I suggest you join. In addition to many other good things, a member gets a 10% discount on reprints.I could not find the 233 you mentioned, but a gun proofed in Suhl in Feb 1933 would indeed have such a mark. It is my opinion that the "S" after the 7x57 is for "spitzer", It was proofed for a 9,9 gram bullet, which would have likely been a spitzer. If it had been proofed for a 11.2 gram bullet, spitzer wouldn't likely apply.Markings like EK,L,and 3t are likely markings placed by different workmen to show they performed work and were entitled to payment, or manufactured the barrel.I don't claim to know who placed most such marks,but others do and one may be along shortly.The cartridge is the rimed version. 7mm cartridges are a little unusual in that the bore diameter as stamped by the proof house matches the nominal designation, some 6.5s also.
Mike

Lovely Kerner-Anson drilling. The pound sign or script L is a mark of the tube maker Kelber. The 3t you mention is actually Sl being more than likely a Belgian tube source. Any marks on frame?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Are the Kettner articles translated?
My 1 year of high school German was over 50 years ago and there's not not left.
I have a combination gun marked Eduard Kettner and would like to know more about the firm.
Thank you

Yes all the info is in English.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank you all for the warm welcome and informative replies, all are appreciated. I will have to join the German Gun Assn. and read that article.

Raimey, I was hoping you'd reply... Thank you for informing me that the gun manufacture is Kerner-Anson. I get that Franz marketed it, but why would Eduard have stamped the barrel?

I can find no markings on the frame work, only the serial number. Is there anywhere in particular I should look over again? I have added additional photos to my photobucket library, please feel free to look at them. The top of the shotgun barrels are marked "Franz Kettner" and "Koln - Suhl".

Is there anything else you can tell me about this piece? What type of lock style is it - I did not research this much at all? What kind of real value does this piece hold? I've always wanted a nice drilling and finally have one (eventually will have two... then three... then...) I am a sucker for beautiful - odd guns and I felt this one is just that... I knew I had to have it once I saw it.

Thank you all again for the information, it is greatly appreciated.

psuklinger

I'll look a bit closer but the action type is Kerner-Anson, per the screw at the top & bottom of the back of the frame. Just wild conjecture on my part, but the Kalibre .... & Sl lead me to believe it had origins @ one of the Merkel facilites. Eduard did little stamping if any. All the effort was applied in Suhl, possibly at a Merkel concern thru their sub-contractors.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Let me know if you'd like higher resolution pictures as I can email them to you if you'd like.

Thank you again!!

psuklinger,
The EK on the barrel is not necessarily Eduard Kettner,there are and were many mechanics in the area with those initials.That said,I believe it is the barrel maker instead.
Mike