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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3 |
Greetings to everyone. I come here hoping to learn. I just took in a couple of older side by sides on consignment and it is now my job to figure out what they are actually worth. This is a very high grade J. Specht 16 gauge side by side. I get nervous when I can't find anything on the internet about a gun: It either means the gun is so common as to be beneath notice (or value) or it means it's rare, scarce and someone is really, really anxious to put out a lot of money to get it. This shotgun has 26 3/4" damascus barrels. It has German and Belgian proof marks, what I have been able to find is that it was common for eastern European craftsmen to buy barrels in the raw from Belgium and then build. Here are some pictures of the shotgun. Date of manufacture, value, history of J Specht are all things I am looking for. Any ideas, information, guidance you can share are greatly appreciated.           [img:center] http://www.khslocum.com/silvertrailoutfitters/images/J_Specht_12.jpg[/img]
Last edited by Silver Trail; 02/13/15 09:22 AM.
Coffee & Kayaks & Guns. Oh, MY!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 68 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 68 Likes: 1 |
Here's the source for information on your gun. http://www.germanguns.com
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
It's an early Collath variant made on components sourced from Liege. It looks to be post 1893 and experienced reproof in Oktober 1902 at the Zella-Mehlis facility.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
Rusznikarz/gunsmith J.(Jan?) Specht hung out his gunmaking shingle as J. SPECHT Fabryka broni i amunicyi in 1861 at Wielko Rycerska 6/7(Größe Ritterstraße 6/7) in Poznan till around 1872 when he moved down the street to Wielko Rycerska 8(Größe Ritterstraße 8) where he stayed until the mid 1880s. In the last decade of the 19th Century he was located at Rycerska 3(Ritterstraße 3) where his successor( nastepca wlaczone) J.K. Chmielewski acquired the business circa WWI. Just a guess, but it is highly possible that this was his son-in-law. At this juncture the shingle read J.SPECHT nastepca wlaczone J.K. Chmielewski till WWII at Franciszka Ratajczaka 3, which appears to be the same location but a name change was made post WWI.  J. Specht in Poznan Courtesy of Piotr J. Bochynski - The advert seems to indicate a founding of 1864? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307 |
Just because something is "rare" or "scarce" does not translate to " someone is really, really anxious to put out a lot of money to get it." There are many other variables, condition being a large one, along with just exactly what the item is (or what it is not.)
That being said, I wish you good luck with it nonetheless.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3 |
Thank you, everyone for your input. I have a couple questions.
Raimey, I found a couple of inferential statements elsewhere that the stamp of ##.## was month and year of proofing and the adjacent numbers were the sequential number of the proofing in the records of the proof house. Is this correct? I haven't been able to find a declarative statement that this is the case.
ChiefShotguns, I agree completely but fancy and scarce has a better chance of value than plain and common.
rtenenbown, I have registered for an account over there. Thanks.
Everyone: Any thoughts on how to establish a value? Rule of thumb pricing? I have not been able to find a mate to this shotgun having sold so is type comparison a reasonable approach?
Coffee & Kayaks & Guns. Oh, MY!
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 626 Likes: 46
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 626 Likes: 46 |
Silver, I don't know how you would price one like that except by type comparison. I think it's a tough call as obviously that was a dandy shotgun in its day. My thoughts are probably the same as yours, someone out there really wants that gun but who and where....and there's probably only two or three who do. I expect it's a niche' market at best.
Welcome to the board, good luck and I appreciate the pictures.
NRA Benefactor 2008
NRA Patron 2007
NRA Endowment 1996
NRA Life 1988
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
Yes, month dot date for Z-M proof-facility from say 1902 till 1923 before Suhl came online with a date code.
I will concur it was for an affluent client but if you can't match the monogram/crown in the golden oval, it matters little. Also the action is an eccentric one being a bit cumbersome with regard to contemporaries at reproof.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,076 Likes: 377 |
 A contribution by Axel E. on NE Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,784 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,784 Likes: 15 |
An "Exhibition grade" W. Collath of similar construction on Guns International is valued at slightly below 3K. This of course is dealer's asking price, not a realized sale price.
The J.Specht seems to be in lesser condition. The 68 cm barrels were not overly common at the time (except on combination guns) so I would carefuly check about possible shortening. Also I can see no information about the condition of the bores which of course is crucial. Last but not least, W.Collath is a well known brand name, not so J. Specht. So, for the time being, I would not dare to value it over 1K.
With kind regards,
Jani
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