doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tulsa Show Greener

Well, after talking double guns to my younger brother for several months, he headed over to the Tulsa show today and picked this one up. It is a WW Greener damascus, extractor, side safety. "Winner at the London Gun Trials 1875, 1877, 1878, and 1879." Patent treble wedge fast. It has 30" barrels choked M/F ivory beads and according to the seller made in 1893.

We would both very much appreciate your thoughts on the gun. The seller represented that the shotgun was owned by an older gentleman who hunted with it up until his final years (he passed away in his 80s). So, while it lacks much of its original finish, it wears its natural finish! The SN is 343XX.

I am not sure how these are graded, is this a lower, middle or higher graded Greener? The engraving, horn fore end and ivory beads make me think this may be a higher graded gun. Do you think $1,100 was a fair price to pay for this shotgun.

Thanks-

Doug

Is your gun tight on face?

The top photograph looks like the action face/breecch end of barrels interface is 'stepped'. Wat i mean is that the metal extens further down the rib extension on the left side than it does on the right. In fact, the left tube seems to come a degee further doen than the reight.

Is this atrick of photography ot is tehre something going on there? Have a close lookand describe what you see.

The gun is in work condition overall and looks to be built on Greener's 1880 'Facile Princeps' action. It is not a high grade gun but nether is it the lowest.

Greener boxlocks can be troublesome of they have been messed around but the quality of manufacture therough all the grades is high.

DBADCRAIG......I'm sure one of the resident'Scanners' on mr Webers World Renown Webers Warriors Web Site" Has already Noted the Overall Condition of the Well Used Put Away Wet , Many times.Greener.. Shotgun. The English, (Pardon me,Its getting close to St. George's Day)..used to have a coin called a "Farthing", When put on the backside if a "Leg-Vise" and struck repeatedly with a 1 lb.Hammer ,could be flattened down to the Victorian equivalent of a Modern"RCH"..It could be used as a Gauge'for checking the Barrels on Face'.. I would suggest that you shut the Barrels down onto a "Feeler-Gauge'Maybe a 'Couple of Thou"(Our Hammered out Farthing was .003") Your gun has the appearance of being "Off the Face", It should be a 'Water-tight' fit. (Or as "OLD 91yr old when I was 15. Arthur Wilks.Purdey Owners check your left Bbl on the underside for the Initials of the Bbl. maker,,'AW')...used to say, when Barrels fit the action, "Hot pee wont get out if you poured it down the tubes.... In all seriousness, Something looks 'Amiss at the breech-end! Have your'Man' check it out. Remember, Off The Face is just That! No gun is built with Barrels "Off Face"..We have a collection of Greeners from Muzzle Loaders to Modern Hammerless'All are 'On Face". Its easy to get caught up in the 'Romance of thr Gun" Just make shure the gun is safe to shoot Modern Shells" I 've had 3 customers in the last 12 mths.Loose 'Bits" from their left hand....Be Safe..CC/dt

Looks like a good starter, if the gun is out of kilter, it can be most likely put right. These days, its hard to find much in the 1k range. If this gun was in high condition, it'd be in the 4-5k region.
Money is always the thing with these.

Small Bore-

Good eye! I can't take the credit (or blame) for the photography or the gun purchase. This belongs to my younger brother in Arkansas who decided that he had to have a vintage double to hang over the fireplace and shoot a bit now and then. The photographs were uploaded to his photobucket via a dial up connection.

There were other photographs far more skewed that he uploaded that I didn't post and I should have done a better job in making my selection. That "step" you noticed actually extends back all the way to the left of the photo, kind of like the data was smeared.

He checked the action tightness with cellophane. The right side grabs it hard, the left side will hold it, but does allow it to be tugged out with some resistance. So it might be a slightly off, but not a whole lot.

He is a bit concerned about shooting the older damascus barrels, however, and while I think they would be fine with lighter loads, everyone has their own comfort level and I respect anyone who is cautious in this regard. He will likely give Briley a call today and he is going to look into getting the sub gauge full length 20ga inserts installed (with screw in chokes). The gun balances very nicely for him, so he is concerned that the inserts (even light ones) will change the handling characteristics.

Does anyone have any experience with these full length tubes? I have never seen them in action. I gather that they are very popular with the competition crowd out there, but they would seem to be the solution for anyone wishing to shoot old damascus and wishing to keep their fingers.

Thanks folks--

Doug

Mr.Greener called them serpentine fences,they were normally used on mid-grade guns.I have a self-acting ejector 10 bore that held it's own next to some clanking 3 1/2" twelve ga. autos,in the snow goose wars,last week in S.D.
Your serial dates it more in the late 1880's I think.I would like to here what your bore size is proofed at,Greener made some thin brass case guns in that serial range.

Greener is a Brand Value level two (BV2) maker's name. This gun appears to fit to about Original Quality grade seven (OQ7) which is a second grade boxlock non-ejector. $1100 should get you a gun that is shootable, but needs some repair/restoration. Depending on how much work your gun actually needs, you seem to have done OK. Bring it back to safe shootable and then shoot it for awhile before you spend ANY money restoring the finish. The reason for this cautionary sentence is that fully restored, the gun will be pushed to make $1500.

R. Glenz-

I don't think the gun has a bore size at proof as I have seen on later guns. But maybe I don't know what I am looking for. Here are some photos, perhaps they have the information you are looking for. If made for a brass case, is that significant?

If my aging eyes are reading it right, the number on the flats close to the breech is "13", indicating a bore diameter when proofed between .710-.718". A 13/1 mark would indicate between .719-.728" and 12 would be from .729-.739". The 12-over-C in a diamond shows that it was intended to take 12 gauge cartridges. The original chamber length would almost certainly have been 2-1/2".

Was the 'cellophane test' done with the forend on or off? It makes a big difference and it should be checked with the forend off.