doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Turn-of-the-century load recommendations

Have been working on this as it is relevant to Pattern Welded barrels which were available from the U.S. makers into the 20s https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowle...fUOZEFU/preview
and which have now clearly been shown to have been both proved and intended for use with Nitro powder
https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowle...ZhIiY62Hx4/edit

So far I have the hang tag loads as follows:

L.C. Smith
12 gauge.....3 dram..........1 1/4 oz. shot (1887 - about 1920)
................3 dram..........1 1/8 oz. shot (after 1920)
16 gauge.....2 1/2 dram......1 oz. shot (introduced 1896)
20 gauge.....2 1/4 dram......7/8 oz. shot (introduced 1907)


From Remington hang tags, until at least 1899, guns were targeted with a black powder load of 3 1/2 Drachms F.G. Powder with 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot.
By a 1908 hang tag a 12-gauge Remington Hammerless was targeted with 24 grains of Infallible in a 2 5/8 inch UMC Nitro Club shell with 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot. The maximum recommended 12-gauge loads was 3 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless or 26 grains of Infallible or Ballistite dense smokeless powders.
(Courtesy of David Noreen)

The 1913 catalog Lefever Arms Co. catalog gives recommended loads in 12ga going up to 3 1/2 Drams Black or Equivalent of Bulk or Dense Smokeless powders with 1 1/4 oz. shot, or 28 grains of Laflin & Rand Infallible. (Courtesy of Mark Ouellette) What was the hang tag load??

1900 Parker hang tags stated that 12g 2 5/8� chambered guns were patterned using 2 3/4� shells with 1 1/8 oz. No. 7 chilled shot and 40 grains (3 1/4 dram) of DuPont Bulk smokeless powder.

Could you please check other maker's catalogs or hang tags for the recommended loads and thanks!

Here are some more. From the May 1903 Baltimore Arms Co. catalogue --



From the 1905 Philadelphia Arms Co. catalogue --



None of the shotgun manufactures seem to recommend the barn burner 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot --



or 28-grains of Infallible or Ballistite also pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot --



Interesting thing about that Remington hang-tag that lists 24 grains of Infallible pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot from a 2 5/8 inch UMC Nitro Club shell is that the UMC catalogues of the era list such a load as only coming in the 2 3/4 inch shell. While early on one could get 1 1/4 ounce loads in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell, during the first decade of the 20th Century our ammunition manufactures phased them out and from then on only offered 1 and 1 1/8 ounce loads in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell. You had to go to 2 3/4 inch or longer for the 1 1/4 ounce loads.

Thank you! Here's the short version

3 Dr. Eq. 1 1/8 oz. �Trap� load recommendations:
New Schultze & New �E.C.� - 33 grains (12 grains/drachm)
Old Schultze & �E.C.� No. 1 - 39 grains (14 grains/drachm)
L&R �Infallible� - 22 grains
Ballistite - 24 grains
DuPont Bulk Smokeless - 36 1/2 grains
Hazard Bulk Smokeless - 3 Dram
New Green Walsrode - 30 grains

3 1/4 Dr. Eq. 1 1/4 oz. �Pigeon� load:
Infallible - 24 grains
Ballistite - 26 grains
DuPont Bulk Smokeless - 39 1/2 grains



How 'bout someone look in Walt's book? I gave both mine to a Med Student long ago.

As Drew noted the 1913 Lefever Arms Co catalog did list those 3� dram/28 grs Infallible or Baliste with 1� oz shot loads. They did recommend 1 1/8 oz loads for 12ga guns weighing less than 7 lbs as I recall.

Does anyone here know the difference between Infallible & Unique. I have read in the past they were identical. Prior to about 1950 in looking at old loading manuals one sees only Infallible listed for use in shotshells with Unique showing for pistols & reduced rifle loads. After this time Unique begins to show in the manuals for shotshells in virtually the same loads as the Infallible had shown. When obturating OP wads came into general use loads were reduced & again with cases such as the compression formed ones etc.

From http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/GeneralReference/L&R-Smokeless.pdf

L&R Infallible Shotgun Smokeless Powder was introduced in 1898 as an improvement over Shotgun Smokeless. Among the improvements was a graphite coating to help control burning speed and to aid in handling. It consisted of shiny gray black discs .065� dia. X .006�. Infallible was 40% NG by weight. Originally, it came in a distinctive eight-ounce (3500 grain) tin for $1. L&R Infallible became DuPont Infallible in 1907 and went on to become Hercules Infallible in 1912. Infallible loads required less powder than Shotgun Smokeless. In the 12 gauge shotgun, a 24 grain charge and 1-1/8 ounce shot load was considered appropriate for hunting (3-� dram equivalent). Infallible in canisters was probably discontinued by Hercules in late 1936 or early 19371, to be replaced by Red Dot.
Infallible was however still available at least through 1948 in 27 pound kegs. Infallible continued to be produced by Hercules as a non-canister powder for ammunition manufacturers and is still produced today (2007) by Alliant. The Infallible name became almost a generic name for an entire group of similar custom powders made for ammunition manufacturers.
Until 1960, the only difference between Infallible and Unique was the granulation.

L&R Unique Smokeless Rifle Powder was introduced in 1900 as a reduced load powder for rifles and pistols. It consisted of shiny gray-black discs .065� dia. X .008�, and had a 40% NG content. It is believed that it was originally created for military use in training for very light or �gallery� loads. It was very strangely packaged in the same tin Infallible came in with a very plain paper label with 2040 grains or 4-2/3 ounce contents. Neither pricing nor promotional literature has been found for L&R Unique. In the .38 Long Colt (pistol), 3 grains of Unique behind the standard 150 grain lead bullet was considered good for practice out to 60 feet. In the 30-40 Krag, 7 to 9 grains of Unique was good from 100 to 200 yards with a 150 grain lead bullet for practice. It became DuPont Unique in 1907 and became Hercules Unique in 1912, and became Alliant Unique in 1995. Unique and Infallible were made from the exact same formula, the only difference being the granulation. For moderate loads, Unique and Infallible were interchangeable.

Infallible measures like Unique; in fact, the L&R Unique can has a powder measure inside it engraved Infallible. Hercules reformulated Unique in 1960, reducing the NG content by half, and Alliant reformulated it again in 2001 for cleaner burning. It is still manufactured in 2007 as a shotgun, pistol, and reduced load rifle powder.

Very interesting. Precision reloading data lists the following 16 gauge load using a Federal hull (by the way in the 60's Lyman listed the same reloading data for paper and plastic hulls:

Federal 16 gauge hull - 1 ounce shot, 18 grains Unique Federal 209A primer TC16 plastic wad, 9400 psi chamber pressure, 1180 fps muzzle velocity.

Use of the plastic wad would add a bit of chamber pressure over card and fiber wads as would the use of the 209A primer, but at 9400 psi I would feel comfortable shooting this load in my Damascus barreled Lefevers.

Drew;
Thanks for that info. It was a long time ago I read they were identical powders, so prior to the re-formulations. I never had any Infallible but have used a good bit of Unique. In the old days with card & filler wads if one tried to load it light as in even a 3-1 1/8 12ga load it required considerable wad pressure to ensure good combustion but was excellent with 1� oz loads or in the 16 or 20 gauges. With the thinner discs Infallible may well have been better in this regard as I see it recommended in loads as light as 1 oz in 12 gauge in old literature which Unique generally was not.

Great post and very informative. I have been shooting some BP target loads and wanted to up the ante slightly for pheasants. Found the info very useful..... Paul

Found a 1912 A.H. Fox hang tag stating that the gun was patterned with 3 Dram Smokeless with 1 1/8 oz. No. 8 shot.

Still need the Ithaca, Baker, and Lefever hang tag load recommendation please!

Researcher gave me a 1904 and a 1905 "Baker Gun Quarterly" and some of the text and images are on Daryl's site
http://www.bakercollectors.com/index.php?p=1_13_Baker-Products-Paper-and-Advertising
Both discuss patterning and load selection and interestingly the factory used No. 8 shot in a 24" circle at 35 yds. BUT there is no mention of the load used.
SOMEBODY has gotta have a Baker hang tag out there