doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Win AA loose base wad problem.

I recall reading about this on this board. Does the problem occur in all gauges?

No. Only the two peice hulls. Small bore hulls are fine. But the ones with a seperate base wad have been reported to be a problem. Many a post over at trapshooters.com on this issue. Most feel if you use a MEC type machine, which forces a loose basewad back down, you are OK as long as you check the bores between every shot. A few just do not want to take any chance as other good hulls are avaiable and use them instead.

So only the 12 gauge hulls are two piece?

First, it is an issue raised only with the AA HS hulls(all gauges). These hulls have a tube, basewad, and brasshead construction. If I understood the problem, it had more to do with priming these hulls in machines like my P-W's where the rim is held while the primer is forced up into the pocket (as Jon touched on). Apparently, this can, on occasion, dislodge the basewad, since it is only being retained by the rim crimp.

I have yet to load any AA HS hulls but have many in small gauges. I think I'll section some in various gauges to see how they differ from other makes that have separate basewads. The separate basewad is not a new thing. I believe many Federal and possibly even the .410 (only) STS hull may be a tube/basewad type construction.

I think it's more likely that this is a problem particular to Winchester's execution of the three piece hull design.

I guess I have to make it clear what I'm asking.
I have reloaded the old style AAs for many years.
I have read that the separate basewads can dislodge from the newer win AA HS hulls when reloaded.
I have peered inside the 12 gauge version of this hull and can clearly see that the basewad is a separate component.
What I'm asking is: Do the basewads come loose in the 12 gauge AAHS cases and is this separate basewad present in the 20 and 28 versions and if so, do they pose the same danger?

The only complaints I've heard of involved 12 AA HS shells. However, all the AA HS gauges are now made this way, separate base wads.

I have never read of the 'problem' in any of the smaller gauges, only the 12. I have yet to actually see one or to have personal knowledge of anyone actually having the problem. From what I have read, I am led to think it involved, in addition to what has already been mentioned, picking up previously reloaded hulls and or hulls that may have been fired in overly large chambers or semi-autos with return springs worn beyond their service limits. There is of course no way to prove nor disprove that, but it is my strong suspecion.

On any break-open gun it is a good habit to look and see that the bbls are unobstructed when loading a round or rounds.

On a personal experience level, I have found a few HS28's [<20 total and none recently] new brass heads loose after being fired. The hulls may or may not have been fired in one of my guns or tubes. I just don't know.

I have reloaded many HS 12's since their introduction and never had the first issue with one and I do not worry about it. If you are going to worry about the hull's base wad, then you are perhaps better to use a dif hull as any unneeded distraction is a negative when shooting.

As an aside, I will say that I have concluded that many hulls found with their heads bulged and the base convex are from having been fired in semi-autos that have return springs that are beyond their service limit and do for replacement. Any hull that I discover with either sign [bulged head or convex base] I discard rather than reload and I do not care if it looks to be a once fired hull or not.

What does the "HS" stand for and can I identify one of these cases by simply looking at the exterior?

According to Winchester, it stands for "high-strength". Others might suggest it stands for "horse-sh**". (not horse-shoe) It's really a pity. The bean-counters running the company have taken the original AA, compression formed shell, the standard that everyone else tried to match, and changed it into a shell that many shooters just toss, like Rios, Federals and other not so desirable hulls.

I'm with Jim, I've picked up many a hull and many a horse hoove. HS doesn't equate to High Strength nor Horse Shoe, but rather the the tons of stuff I've scraped out of hooves with a hoof pick.