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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
if a welded lug is safe on a 24 then why not on other guns??..... Yeah, why? I would think the heat from welding that lug would undo the brazing (assuming the ribs were brazed on). Winchester 21 ribs are soft-soldered so as to not undo the heat treatment of the barrel steel in a brazing process. That gun is the only double I have ever heard of that had barrels made from heat treated steel.
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 03/29/14 11:19 AM.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,854 Likes: 118 |
Mike, I know the extension ribs on L.C. Smiths were brazed on, the top and bottom ribs were soft soldered. The loop (lug) was held on by a screw from under the top rib to the loop and then soft soldered.
I think that brazing would also add too much heat as brass melts fairly high. Silver solder is high also. The small diameter that I use for silver soldering my band saw blades, I either had to use oxy/acetylene or Mapp gas in a bottle to make it flow, propane would not do it.
David
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Joined: May 2011
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
 My 1950 - made 16ga Model 24 appears to have the lug silver-soldered or brazed on, maybe. I'm no expert, but no weld is visible. Crappy pic, but you can see the lug. I don't know if production years would make any difference. Mine is an early gun.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 39
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 39 |
That was my thought also, later production and different manufacturing techniques.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
Mike, I know the extension ribs on L.C. Smiths were brazed on, the top and bottom ribs were soft soldered. The loop (lug) was held on by a screw from under the top rib to the loop and then soft soldered.
I think that brazing would also add too much heat as brass melts fairly high. Silver solder is high also. The small diameter that I use for silver soldering my band saw blades, I either had to use oxy/acetylene or Mapp gas in a bottle to make it flow, propane would not do it.
Thanks David. Did not know that about the Smith's loop, or even that it was ever done that way. I am still curious why loop, lug, and hook welding doesn't show up on any other lower cost twentieth century American double. Would seem to be very strong and relatively inexpensive.
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 03/29/14 08:27 PM.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
if a welded lug is safe on a 24 then why not on other guns??..... Yeah, why? I would think the heat from welding that lug would undo the brazing (assuming the ribs were brazed on). Winchester 21 ribs are soft-soldered so as to not undo the heat treatment of the barrel steel in a brazing process. That gun is the only double I have ever heard of that had barrels made from heat treated steel. You got that right, Mike- No M21 or M24 doubles ever left the New Haven plant with a barrel lug welded- whether by TIG, MIG or SMAW process- NEVER
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Run With The Fox how do you REALLY feel about all of this?
Fine as wine in the sunshine. I'll go up against anyone who posts here with my welding expertise- in both ferrous, non-ferrous and the basic three grades to tool and die steels--As far as my service to My Country in my beloved USMC- when I went into the Marines you had to volunteer- they don't take draftees- I said this elsewhere- I was a 0311 and a 2112- a REMF who worked out of base and field Armory locations, both Stateside and overseas--I have never claimed to have received either a Purple Heart or a Bronze Star, nor would I- stolen valor is a heinous crime and diminishes the honor that should rightly go to those who earned them. All Marines are Rifleman, you don't graduate from Boot Camp if you are a "Non-Qual"-- as for Armorers- we are essential- See the Armorer's Song from the Opera- the late Nash Buckingham quoted it in 1966 when he received the Award Gun (M21 12 gauge) from his friend John Olin at the Lockhaven Country club in Illinois "Oh, the sword is a weapon to rule the world, I honor the man who shakes it- But what is he, nor what could he be, withour first the man who makes it"..
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
if a welded lug is safe on a 24 then why not on other guns??..... Yeah, why? I would think the heat from welding that lug would undo the brazing (assuming the ribs were brazed on). Winchester 21 ribs are soft-soldered so as to not undo the heat treatment of the barrel steel in a brazing process. That gun is the only double I have ever heard of that had barrels made from heat treated steel. You got that right, Mike- No M21 or M24 doubles ever left the New Haven plant with a barrel lug welded- whether by TIG, MIG or SMAW process- NEVER Fox thanks for the reply. But I was asking a couple of questions. Not making an argument that Winchester didn't ever weld the lug onto the barrels of Model 24s.
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 03/30/14 08:51 AM.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,245 Likes: 423 |
In the spirit of "How, and Why dey do dat?" I have added a very understandable link to the AWS site regarding silver alloy brazing. (Silver soldering to some) http://www.aws.org/wj/amwelder/9-00/fundamentals.htmlIf one thinks about the assembly of shotgun barrels of the various styles talked about on this site, one can really begin to see how and why various techniques for their joinery have evolved. It's not that technical of an article, and covers many of the issues a shotgun barrel set faces. And provide some insights as to just how precisely barrel joints actually have to be filed. (not very)
Out there doing it best I can.
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