doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Loading Data for 6.5X58R Sauer

I recently acquired a Franz Schubert combo gun in 16GA and 6.5X58R. The barrel has 5 groove rifling. I made a cerrosafe bore cast and the bore comes close to .264. I have a set of dies and some 9.3X72R cases and I have formed the cases. I had to anneal the cases after forming after cracking one case from too much work hardening. The rifle is marked for an 8 gram steel jacket bullet, and I've worked up a load using 129 grain Hornady round noses over 25 grains of 3031. The recoil is brisk in this light gun but there are no excessive pressure signs.

Would anyone have other load data for this caliber? I'm going to have to replace the irons, as they are just too low for me. I might as well find out where all loads print before deciding how to configure the sights.

Never heard of a Franz Schubert, but there was a Fritz Schubert at M�rzenberg 37, Zella-Mehlis in the 1920s. Please, post photos of the markings and proofmarks.
At .264" groove, your barrel is quite wide for a 6.5x58R Sauer & Sohn. German specifications called for a groove and max bullet diameter of 6.64 mm = .261", so DEVA loads are pressure tested using bullets sized down to .261". Max allowable pressure of the 6.5x58R is 2800 bar (piezo-electric transducer).
These loads are listed in the DEVA handbook, using powders available in the USA:
Sierra 1700 .264" 85 grs HP
IMR 4064: 29 grs for 2510 fps at 2408 bar
VV N140: 28.5 grs for 2560 fps at max pressure
Hornady 2610 .264" 100grs interlock
IMR 4064: 26.5 grs for 2330 fps at max pressure
VV N140: 26 grs for 2395 fps at max pressure
As both cartridges are very similar, you may also use .25-35 Winch. data as a guide IMHO.

Vol, your load sounds too hot to me. I have used the two VV loads that Kuduae mentions above. I also feel safe using any published .25-35 loads, although I would start at 80% and work up with a new gun. I have three 6.5 Sauers and I really enjoy using the round. Two of mine mike at .260, the third at .264. I am told that you can make cases easily out of .30-40 Krag, but I haven't tried. I'd like to hear how your loading experiments come out. mike PS - I'm an old vol also.

I have heard but I suppose he didn�t work with any combo guns...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Schubert

Mike(hensley),
Indeed, you can make cases from 30-40( 303 Brit.also),but it wouldn't be easy. It would involve sizing the case heads,as well as making the dies to do it with.After doing this, turning the rim, trimming,etc.,you can have precisely fitting cases.A much easier way would be to start with original length( 1.125" vs 1.020" current length)38-55 cases. I would think starting with 32-40 Win file/trim die,maybe 25-35,then 6.5x58 die.I like to form cases with out the expander(in case a case sticks), but in this case, you might find it helpful to make a straight rod instead (slightly under bullet dia.).This would be an effort to avoid "crumpling" necks during the pretty radical sizing.The 38-55 cases will start off both shorter and smaller in dia.than 6.5x58R.The radical reforming will lengthen them (maybe enough)and fireforming will expand them to fit the chamber.
Mike

Oops, I meant August Schuler, Suhl. I was going from memory, obviously flawed. The action is marked Herkules. The locking lugs are on the outside of the action. I gather that this is a characteristic of the Herkules action. I have a set of CH4D dies. I shortened the 9.3 cases about 1/4" first, then ran the cases into the sizing die with the decapping pin removed. As to bore dimensions, anything made before 1937 is entirely up to the maker, as German dimensions weren't standardized until then, according to Dave at CH4D.
I sized in steps, lubing each time, and finally got the cases sized. Then I sized with the pin in place, and annealed the cases standing in an inch and a half of water. The chamber is a good bit longer than 58mm, and the leade is long as well. I seated a bullet just barely in the case and it chambered without resistance. As this is a single shot, I only seated the bullets deep enough to insure that they won't pull out in handling. The expander ball is .262. I fired the gun today. No pressure issue; the cases fell out of the chamber and primers were not flat. There is little change in case dimension after firing, so the dies were a good fit. Dave at CH4D told me he made the dies to a chamber cast from a vintage gun. The gun groups 2" above the sights at 50 yards. Four shots grouped into 1.5 inches. I can live with that. Now all I need to do is make some sights that are high enough to easily use.

Vol,
The Herkules is an interesting action, can you post photos? Using 9.3x72R cases is the "School"(standard) solution; I just reccommend the 38-55 because starline cases are cheaper and easier to form, plus I'm hard pressed to shorten hard to find cases if there is another solution. Whatever works, works, and your way seems to work very well also.
Mike

I had two cases with the gun when I bought it, formed from Norma 9.3X72R, and I bought 20 new Norma cases from a kind contact on this site. I ruined one case, but 21 cases should last a long time if I'm careful. What is really ironic is that I recently sold about 150 9.3 cases and a set of dies and a box of RWS bullets after holding on to them for over 20 years. I'll try to post some photos soon.

Allan