doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What are these guns...?

I am a little thrown by what I'm seeing and reading. The ad does not actually say these are made by Holland & Holland, yet lists the manufacturer as Holland & Holland. Did they make a gun marked H&H like these? The letters confuse me too - it makes it look like the model of the guns is "shot and regulated". And if not, how does one regulate a shotgun after its made? I do not have enough experience to know what I am actually looking at here.... thank you.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=338303142

Hi, the guns your looking at are BLE's made in Birmingham for H&H. H&H BLE's were made by either S. Wright & Son or A.A. Brown and later by Webley & Scott (these appear to be Scott made guns, no fancy backs and also have just the H&H mark and not Holland & Holland on the action). The shot and regulated means that H&H would do the choke work and regulate the patterning at their shooting grounds before finishing (blackening the bbls) the guns at their shop. So while these guns are marketed by and marked H&H they were not made by H&H in London.

H&H also marketed a fancier/higher finished model the Cavalier and the Northwoods (more plain than the Cavaliers)

BTW, what "numbers" are you referring too?

Best!

Greg

Holland and Holland acquired W&C Scott in 1985. Scott made these guns and H&H marketed them as "shot & regulated" by H&H.

The code shows they were made in 1973. I suspect that they were proofed but unfinished guns that Hollands had when they took over the stock of Webley & Scott. They would have then finished them. Basically they are a pair of Webley 700's but may fetch a slight premium with the Holland & Holland conection. Lagopus.....

Here's another example, I'd say a bit "Over priced"

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10697183/s...land-and-hollan

Best!

Greg

The guns were built by Webley and Scott in Te 70's for Hollands . They were actually Webley 700's and left the factory in the finished state . The"shot and regulated" is just a marketing ploy as the only work Hollands wwe likely to have done was to bore the chokes if they were stock guns ,guns to order would have been sent out with chokes bored .
It was a way of selling a cheap gun that bore the Holland marque without actually claiming to have made them . There is a law in the UK that came in around that time that prevents companies claiming that they have made an item unless they actually did a percentage of the work themselves . This is seen in other guns made by Webley that although bearing a makers name will have on the barrel something like specially made for ,or made to the requirements of XXXXX .

Thanks for all the info. They looked a little...I don't know...garish? to be actual Holland and Holland made guns...

So how much mystique does the handling and perhaps minor choke work by a H & H employee make these gun worth more than a standard 700? Not one extra penny to me. Buy the gun not the name is never more to the point than for guns like this. Now what I see is a true pair of 700 made in a period of less than stellar workmanship for many guns of that era. I would examine them with a critical eye and not pay extra for a little poorly engraved letters on the rib or side. They are what they are and are not a rare gun in mint condition, just a pair of closet queens with too much makeup.